After a grueling hour of arguments in the chatbox, we've resorted to posting a thread about the Balance of the Battle Rifle. Personally, I can say the Battle Rifle is balanced because: It's an all-round starting weapon. It provides players with an effective weapon in all combat scenarios because it can be used in Long-Range, Medium-Range and Close-Range combat. The weapon is Semi-Automatic and requires a bit of player concentration to fire the weapon at it's optimum speed. Pressing the trigger too quickly "Jams" your burst and makes your next actual burst slower. It requires constant and accurate precision firing doing most damage to the head. It has a 2x Magnification scope allowing for easier aiming with Medium-Long range targets. It fires a burst, requiring the player to follow the shot through accurately so all 3 bullets hit the head. The fact that this is a starting weapon, gives players a choice from the start of the game. They either upgrade their weapons to be more effective in different environments, or they stick it out with the BR and AR combo and be a support player. The following is a list of scenario's of how effective the BR can be against other weapons: Close Quarter's: Requires the player to land all four shots of the burst on the targets head which can be difficult when the enemy is strafing/jumping leaving a much greater margin of error with the player's accuracy. Enemy players could also wield SMG's, Gravity Hammers, Rocket Launchers, Shotguns, Swords, Plasma Rifles, Assault Rifles, sticky grenades (by sticking), Fuel-Rod Cannon, Flamethrower and Plasma Pistols all of which would kill the enemy quicker than the battle rifle would. The player could use a "NadeBR" combo if there are available surfaces to successfully bounce the grenades off. Medium Range: The medium Range is where the BR is most useful, grenades can be bounced off most surfaces to land nearby the target, and the aiming is easier with the small reticule even when the enemy is strafing. Other weapons to combat this would be the Carbine Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Fuel-Rod Cannon, Sniper Rifle, Beam Rifle, Bruteshot and Needler. All of which can kill the player quicker than the player can fire the four killing shots (If the player were to make no mistakes in firing all four bursts) Long Range: As the reticule remains the same, the margin of error when firing shots is much greater. The bullet spread of the weapon also brings in the random factor of missing targets although at the right range, bullet magnitism can correct this. The player also has to "Lead-Shot" targets to successfully hit their enemy. Weapons to combat this scenario are Beam Rifle, Sniper Rifle and Carbine Rifle. Although there are much fewer weapons to combat this scenario the Sniper/Beam Rifle can be a one hit kill weapon, and at most is 2 hit kill. The player will be dead before/during firing the second burst. The carbine rifle is also faster firing which can knock a player out of scope, preventing the BR's accuracy from being at it's best. I'm yet to hear the point of views against the BR's balance.
Fail.. argument lost. From now on, your point of view in all arguments has a revoked right of relevance.
Of course the BR is balanced- It was designed to be an all purpose weapon. Sure- it is not a super close range or long range weapon, but it is great for 8 out 10 situations. It is balanced out by weapons that are more specialized at a certain task. Personally I find it to be a great weapon due to its effectiveness and requirement of some skill.
exactly; there will always be a weapon better at it at a certain range, but finding the perfect weapon to have alongside your BR to be perfect for the given situation is what takes skill. The BR is an all-round weapon that is for you to use when you dont have a specialised weapon for the particular range. If someone has a specialised weapon for the range, they will most likely beat you if they have the skill. If not, i'll pwn you. The thing that takes the most skill in Halo 3, imo, is choosing the best weapon combination for the situation and map your in.
An all purpose weapon can't be balanced. A balanced weapon has strengths and weaknesses, the BR is always powerful
That's a rather strange way of looking at it. It's an all purpose weapon, and is poweful in pretty much all situations in the right hands, but that doesn't mean that it's the most powerful in any given situation, close range weapons (obviously) beat it close range if wielded with equal skill to the person using the BR (Mauler, Shotty, even AR if it's used right which isn't even too difficult, will all outdo a BR at close range). At longer ranges it's less powerful than Sniper, Beam Rifle and Laser, sure these are power weapons but something that can do a significant amount of damage at such large range should be a power weapon, and I don't think this negates the fact that these offset the BR nicely. At mid range it's less clear cut, but then each weapon should have its own sweet spot. Even then, at closer mid range, an AR can still do well in the right hands, though not nearly as often I'll admit. Still, often forgotten about is the Carbine, which at short and short/medium range can definitely out-do a BR. It's not just about how the weapon is in relation to other weapons which defines balance as well, balance is a mix between how the weapon functions in its own right and also how it fits in to the wider sandbox. The key thing about the BR is that it does take skill to use, especially to use it effectively at all ranges. If it was really easy to use and as all-purpose and powerful as it is, then I'd have more sympathy for arguments against its balance. I'm not saying its perfectly balanced, I think that is a little naive, but I still think the overpowered arguments are generally blown way out of proportion. If you found people constantly using BRs and owning Shotties at short range, and Snipers at long range, again I'd have more sympathy, but frankly this isn't the case. Or rather, if it is, then it's largely because the person using the other weapon in question sucks... I'll admit that you often see BRs beating ARs even at close range, but I think there's one important and overlooked factor here: mentality. As condescending as it may sound, bad players often stick to the AR because it's easier to do OK with it if you're not great than it is with a BR, but then saying that a typical BR player (who is likely to be better) is beating them even at short range is an unfair example simply because of skill differential. Put an AR in the right hands and it will beat a BR at short range more often than not. EDIT: Also, I love how these arguments always focus on the BR, methinks most people starting them are a little late to the party, otherwise they'd remember the CE Pistol which had a noticeably higher RoF, killed in 3 shots as opposed to 4, and was much more accurate even at massive range. Funny how everyone forgets about that...
^ correct... You pretty much notice that the BR does average amounts of damage at all ranges.. where as a power weapon does massive amounts of damage at a specific range which balances the rate of all weapons and provides players a good all round weapon that can be effective at all ranges.... Do you guys honestly want to play with a shotgun in long range combat against a guy who has a sniper?
I agree. You could go as far as to say that the SMG/AR and the BR are the all round weapons. In this scenario you must assume that it isn't always about the kills, but just the damage on the other player. The main reason why the BR feels so dam good is because it pretty much negates health. If you were just playing with shields, and no health, then the BR would suck pretty bad against some concentrate AR fire. This may or may not have been Bungie's true intention. However i'm still all for it. The BR is beatable, anyone who understands how to use one effectively knows it. You also have to remember that this is a game. People don't always want to be limited, restricted, told what they can do and what they can't. They don't want to be given a gun that works in 30% of arising situations, and expected go to out and enjoy themselves. You need to give people the freedom in the first place so that they can go out and make their own restrictions. I wrote a nifty guide back in the day for Lionheart, that covered the fundamental aspects of the H3 Battle Rifle in detail; http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-3-mlg-discussion/79013-battle-rifle-guide-unf.html
Heres my way of thinking about it. Would you ever drop it? I and many people would either say "no" or "maybe for 2 power weapons". I don't know if "unbalanced" is the right term, but it definitely is the foundation for Halo 2 and 3's competitive gameplay because it works pretty well in various (most) situations and distances when put in the right hands. I personally don't mind the BR and have become pretty good with it and it's tricks, but I do think that it is takes a bit of the spice out of the gameplay and I like to see a variety of weapons being used. Also, you be dissin PC gaming? It is much more difficult. People that are good at PC gaming are a lot more accurate and quick than those using controllers. It makes a huge difference when using an Xbox USB controller on Halo 2 Vista as opposed to a mouse from my experiences.
Ohey PC vs Console skill argument, it's been a while. When people point out that PC gamers (let's take shooters as an example since they're the most widely comparable between the two platforms) can do stuff much quicker and more precisely than a console counterpart, and thus are more skilful, they completely fail to take in to account that this is because the interface method is itself much more precise and easy to use. If PC gamers themselves were more skilful, then they would be able to do more skilful things on the same interface method as console players. I know this sounds trite but it serves to illustrate the (imo) flawed premise and approach of the above assertion. The interface method is easier to use for a given level of precision and speed, end of. I'm not downplaying the skill involved in PC shooters, anything but, and the more precise interface means that the potential skill differential is inherently greater, but to say that a person using a KB/M vs someone using a controller on H2 vista, and the results, means that PC gaming is harder misses the point completely. If anything, console gaming is more difficult since its harder to perform a given action with the same speed/precision, perhaps even pointlessly so, though that's another discussion altogether.
Of course its balanced! I almost cried when i found out it wouldn't be in reach. In the hands of a skilled player, it can take on any other weapon. And win.
So it's not balanced ;-) Srsly though, its no different to the DMR. Add bloom and it would be interesteing in reach
"Balance" is a term that is being used strangely here. There are two possible ways of looking at balance: 1. Is this weapon balanced against all other weapons, such that I may as well swap it for a needler or plasma rifle, and I'll do just as well with my new weapon as I would have with the BR? Clearly it is not. The BR is superior as an all-purpose weapon to most others in the game; you pretty much always want one occupying one of your weapon slots, unless you're lucky enough to have rockets/sniper, sword/sniper, or something like that. 2. Is this weapon unbalancing to the gameplay, meaning if I have it, will I dominate other players? Most of the time, no - either because you're playing a game with BR starts, or because they are sprinkled all over the map and most players can grab one (or an offsetting carbine) right after spawning. In this sense the BR is balanced just fine. It would only be unbalanced in this way if you were playing on a map without BR starts and with just a couple of spawn points for the BR itself; then whoever got it would have a serious advantage. To me the very idea of the BR is an all-purpose weapon that makes every player effective and able to fight from respawn, assuming it's the starting weapon or at least is plentiful on the map. This is DESIRABLE, in my opinion, because most other Halo weapons are too situation-specific and would put the player at a disadvantage very often after respawn, at least until/unless they could get to a better position. Having a BR means you might actually win a long-range duel against a sniper who is spawn-camping, or take out a guy with rockets who is looking to pick up free kills. But the weapon, despite its versatility, isn't OVER-powered, because it isn't the most effective weapon in most situations or at most ranges (close range, medium-close [where it loses to AR or SMG], very long range). It gives you a fighting chance but it doesn't give you superiority over a player who has grabbed a more situational weapon and put himself in position to use that weapon properly. That is as it should be, I think. And I think Bungie agrees, because all of their games have featured an all-purpose weapon: the pistol, the BR, the BR (2), and the DMR. And in all of these games that were played on Live, there have been gametypes that involved starting with this weapon, and the majority of custom games were played starting with this weapon. There's a reason for that. I think the BR fulfills a necessary function in gameplay, and is crucial in creating one particular kind of balance - the kind that prevents a player that just spawned from getting his ass handed to him.