Skisma posted this in regard to my list of objects with noticable screen lag Link to list. http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-...923-decent-list-objects-cause-screen-lag.html
This is a fantastic thread, that will hopefully help everyone with framerate issues in their maps. This is an essential guide when forging large maps.
Any 2 intersecting light boundaries create framerate lag as well, if the light colors are different. Meaning, if you stick a (Tempest) Forerunner gravity lift too close to a Covenant gravity lift, the green and purple-blue lights blending creates framerate lag. This seems to be true of any light, especially normal lights from the light category.
The size of the map means nothing. It is question of how many objects, especially reflective/transparent surfaces, are in your near field of view. You can produce the same problems on a small 4v4 map if you were aesthetics detailed crazy. The biggest problem with maps being submitted is that people go crazy with details. I see so many maps with (for example) glass sail embedded into a wall to give it a cosmetic plus, but then they complain that the frame rate slows. Exodus is an example of a large map that does not suffer from frame rate issues. It is a big team map. It is clean and simple. It has use of glass sail, but it is so large and spacious and infrequent that it doesn't present a problem. It is not noisy with lots of details. It is an example of how maps should be built. But people feel they need to "detail" their design and they don't understand the consequences. [br][/br]Edited by merge: It is not the amount of map that they see, but the number of near objects that they see. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Keep it in the background, and don't build anything near it. If someone goes near the splash, then they won't see anything near by other than the splash. Good to know... [br][/br]Edited by merge: Bungie said that the larger the objects the more error will be seen in its resting positions and orientations. Their physics engine has rounding errors, and the errors are more obvious to the eye on the larger pieces.
Nitpick much? Maps are made out of objects. Maps where LoS is wide open across the map will naturally have more objects visible than maps with restricted LoS.
I don't mean to beat a subject to death, but I was trying to say that lots of objects are okay so long as they are not near each other. Far objects don't bother the frame rate like near objects do. It is how many near objects you can see from any point of view. Sorry if I seemed picky..
Not at all, this kind of information is always useful, although I believe most of us suspected this already, as Bungie stated early in one of the vidocs that they found a way to render objects cheaper from a distance. Either way, it's useful for folks just jumping into forge and finding problems.
Actually using a soft kill zone inside the teleporter tends to fix that camping problem. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Well when you can make a better forge world than bungie i would love to here you Complain about how crappy it is.
Ill add the obvious: Trees kill your framerate. If you want to make a map with a tree as the centerpiece you gotta really micro manage your object use. Embassy sucked the frames dry in early versions and i had to rebuilt entire section with part replacements to save budget. And don't even think about putting a light in or near one. All of the animations of branches interacting with the light is no good.
How about some video of classic framerate problems. It seems while playtesting a map some kid will inevidably cry framerate whenever any lag hits. For everyone's benefit could someone link a FR issue vid which shows different FR problems as they occur. Hopefully it will be a huge help in understanding what FR is, how it is affected by forge and how it shows up in gameplay. Me, I can't make a vid to save my life....
Probably could. I'd love to give it a shot but that isn't going to happen. I swear, Bungie could take a ****, wrap it up and sell it for 60 bucks and you would still stand behind it without even thinking twice about it. Sometimes Bungie could just do better. And I'm not on their case just for the sake of it, I think they really could have made some better choices regarding Forge World. Let me kind of elaborate on what I mean. The piece on the left is my piece, and the piece on the right is Bungie's piece, or at least the closest I could get it. Mine would be 6 polygons, and Bungies would be roughly 200. Sure I don't have the beveled edges and the neat little glass things inside it, but you could slap a nice tiled texture on mine and it would look fine. You could render about 36 of my pieces with the same processing power it would take to render 1 Bungie piece. So, would you rather have hundreds of pieces to build with, or thousands? You decide.
^ And this is why I stick to Colleseum Walls for flooring and walling when possible. Excessive polygon counts and the rendering issues with glass pieces really kill Reach's Forge. Throw in object density and split screen frame rate and you have a real nasty balancing issue to tackle. Essentially if you want to forge a map with no frame rate issues you need to be a minimalist. Place the pieces you know you need, and make it of the largest and simplest pieces possible. Shamefully, this also throws excessive aesthetics right out the window.
Framerate lag is incredibly different from Network lag, and the difference is huge. I cant really show ATM, but if I can get a map tonight with large framerate lag, ill make a video. Basically, if you have network lag, youll know it. Youll teleport, your grenades will be delayed, peoples shields wont be popping when they should. Its very noticeable. If you have high framerate lag, your shields are still going to come up when they should, your grenades are going to come out at the right time, and you wont be teleporting. However, the game will same to go very slow and choppy, something that doesnt happen with Network Lag.
Also, where as network lag is sporatic and can happen anywhere, frame rate lag occurs regularly in specific places during specific conditions. Some conditions can be having a non-scoped sniper, ARs firing near by, grenades or other explosives going off, etc. And its most often noticed when looking in a specific direction, such as from point A to point B, however not occuring when looking from A to C. In which case that would signal that there is something in LoS between A and B that is causing the issue...
Question: Does HD output tax the XBOX more? I play on standard definition most of the time and don't seem to experience the same framerate issues other players have. I often want to ask 'are you playing in HD?'.
Super true, I have an example in the very begining of this video(not a plug). It affects play when you are in the Banshee and the whole map comes into view, I have been having hell trying to minimize this; take a look (but only watch the first 20 seconds, this isn't a free advertisment and please dont comment on the VIDEO, it is just an example) the FR problem is apparent in theater - in game when the Banshee flies where the camera is at the time of the issue. Er, hopefully you see what I mean. Video: Spoiler YouTube - halo reach map: made by vesicles Pretty sure this has more to do with the amount of objects over the entire map and is not easily corrected.
This thread is massively outdated as I made it within a week of having the game and when very little was known about framerate lag. There is now a lot more information, which can mostly be found throughout the replies in this thread. I no longer play reach as I was kicked out of my house. Therefore I won't be updating this thread. I would really appreciate if somebody rewrote the guide with the new information to replace this thread in the stickied reach guide compendium, as this thread isn't particularly helpful anymore in the state it is currently in.