What is MLG?

To start with i wouldn't bother making an MLG map. An MLG map is a map used for competitive gaming of the highest standards. The maps need to be extremely well forged and well designed. If your new to forging just stick to normal maps to increase your forging skills.

 

I agree with what Pilgrim said - if you aren't familiar with MLG and an experienced forger on top of it, I wouldn't bother.

To answer your question though, MLG maps tend to have these traits:

- Symmetry. The far majority of them are symmetrical to ensure balance. The few asymmetrical MLG maps are carefully tested repeatedly to balance out.

- Limited selection of power weapons, armor abilities, and power-ups. MLG is not too fond of some aspects of the game that they think are overpowered.

- Drop spawns for certain power weapons. That means they spawn one unit up and fall to the ground. I won't get into the reason they do this because it's fairly complicated, but feel free to google it.

- Good mix of open gameplay with strong lines of sight, and just enough cover to break up the lines of sight where appropriate. Most MLG play revolves around mid and long-range. DMRs and sniper rifles, etc. Maps that are easily dominated by a shotgun or sword are not likely to endear themselves to the MLG community.

- No frame rate or performance issues. No way to get out of the map. No exploitable hidey-holes or perches.

- Skill jumps. MLG players like interesting, somewhat difficult ways to get from place to place that give a competitive advantage if done properly, but are appropriately tough to master.

 

Drop spawning is used to make weapon respawns similar to halo 1 style. Basically, when a weapons is on drop spawn(most likely power weapon like a rocket) the weapon will spawn every 3 minutes regardless of when it is picked up or even if nobody picks it up.

This makes the game more consistent and so knowledgeable teams/players know when a power weapon is back by just looking at the timer to help gain control over the map(I think anyways).

Here are the rules for Halo 3 MLG, in Reach it's obviously a bit different but a lot of it is the same. Some armor abilities (e.g. Evade, jetpack) are allowed on MLG maps.

The weapons allowed in MLG are DMR, needle rifle, rockets, sniper, grenade launcher and plasma pistol(correct me if I've missed something, I think shotgun might be allowed).

 

The drop spawn is because a weapon can be dirtied if picked up within two seconds of it spawning.... By dirtying I mean that the weapon spawn time is offset until the person who dirtied it stops moving or dies.
Weapon times for drop spawned weapons are 2 seconds less than what you would normally expect, ie; 178 seconds vice 180 to compensate for the 2 second drop.
Also, to ensure the weapon always spawns at its set time, there is an option in "advance settings" where the weapons has a max count of 8 set. This is to prevent players holding onto empty rockets or snipers to prevent them from spawning again.
Another aspect of drop spawns is that the weapons "de-spawns" withing a minute of not being picked up.

 

The above lengthy posts are why I didn't get into the reasons behind drop-spawning.

 

Increased mobility and less damage resistance with limited weapon selection. That is MLG. Alot of the above posts have alot of MLG traits mentioned but none of them hit on the basics of MLG; which is paramount to understanding MLG maps. The increase in speed and reduced shields allow combat to evolve faster than slayer, but not Swat fast. The weapon restrictions promote fairness and gameflow. More speed, less damage - limited weaponry. If your map lends itself to these basic traits then it may become an MLG map, however the thing about the competitive crowd is very true for MLG. MLG maps are subject to intense community scrutiny and ALL of the points listed in the above posts will factor in. You should play some MLG to see how the map set ups work.

 

^^^
Shields and health are normal in MLG.

 

vesicles - you're kind of correct, but I think you are exaggerating the importance of some of those factors to map design. A lot of MLG gameplay takes place on standard Bungie maps (though that was more true in past Halos than in Reach), and a lot of MLG maps are perfectly playable with standard game settings. The MLG paradigm is only going to have minimal impact on most map designs, and for a lot of forgers it probably won't change their approach at all. Limited weapon selection definitely plays a large role, but any map can be retrofitted through forge with an MLG-appropriate weapon palette (the question then is if that weapon set will work with the map, or wreck it). Balance, natural flow, and a mix of cover and open lines of sight are the definitive elements in my mind to what makes MLG players like a map.

Anyway if you want to know how to make an MLG map, study the rules and play in their playlist, and download their maps and gametypes. It will eventually become clear what attributes they value in a map.

For me personally, I've played some MLG and have a lot of MLG guys on my friends list. I understand what they like about it, but increasingly with each new Halo it feels like they are playing an entirely different game from the bulk of Bungie's community. They really look down their noses at "casual" gamers and the out-of-the-box experience of Halo, and it's kind of frustrating to me. I think they are really prone to exaggerate how "unfair" certain weapons or armor abilities can be. And they focus way too much on trying to make each new Halo play like the original one. On top of that, if you play a few MLG maps you may as well have played 90% of them - there's a major overflow of symmetrical arena maps that follow a basic template, and most of them are funnish but few of them capture the imagination in any way. As both a player and a forger, I find them too separatist and too restrictive. That's just my two cents - sorry for the semi-thread jack.

 

yup - I stand corrected. MLG v2 has %110 player speed and jump with %150 gravity and %75 melee. DMR, no radar and sprint. Shields and health are unchanged. If you ever get down to reading this use it set up MLG Forge and see how it works.
This may help too:
Major League Gaming - MLG - Major League Gaming

 

However don't get to these settings just yet! MLG is looking to try something different with V3, which could be out as early as mid January. :O

 

@Schnitzel: Weapon dirtying is a by-product of the drop spawn, not the reason for it. The reason is, as previously stated, simply to allow for consistent weapon spawn times regardless of when the weapon was picked up.

Also, you said that MLG is looking to try something different with V3, mind if I ask where that comes from? I'm not debating the legitimacy of your claims, it's just that I'm obviously very keen to see where V3 goes, and any official word on what's being considered interests me a lot.

Now, I'm afraid I can never pass these up:

I've personally never understood this idea that the MLG variant is moving further and further from the default game when applied to Reach. In comparison to Halo 3, Reach has AA's included whereas H3 MLG removed equipment entirely. The weapon set is more diverse, including Shotguns which were removed for H3 MLG, and the Nade Launcher (though there was no direct equivalent for this in H3). Many over at MLG are also pushing for things like the Concussion Rifle and Focus Rifle to be included, and I'd personally like to see the Sword back again.

I agree that it's different from the normal game, but imo it's moved back towards it from H3, albeit not by a massive amount, it's still not a further departure. As for the others, CE and H2 were basically the vanilla game, but only certain maps and gametypes chosen, which I don't think anyone could object to since it's 4v4 and not everything is suitable.

Who is this 'they'? The tryhards who put MLG BrZ iZ Proo mmwwwmwmwmwm in their GTs and think they're the **** cause they can beat random kids in MM? Because that is not MLG, they're fans of it, but mostly for their own purposes in stroking their egos and being able to quantify how much better than others they think they are. I'll happily admit that these guys are way too numerous to be ignored, but those who actually hold status or are officially involved in MLG are not of this self serving crowd (though actually that's sadly not even true in some cases, you get some high level players who are just as full of themselves as any tryhard, it's a shame such things are dictated by skill rather than attitude, though you just have to remember that others within the community look down on such an elitist attitude just as much as outsiders do).

I'd also like to point out that the essential criticism there is that they dislike and deride the way you play the game. Without trying to put words in your mouth, you have basically said exactly the same thing in reverse, albeit in much more polite terms than you'll ever hear from an MLG tryhard. If more people were content to accept that others play differently for their own reasons, without getting annoyed about the existence or approaches of others, this mutual tension would be much reduced imo. The basic premise seems to be that 'we don't like them cause they don't like us', which, when put like this, highlights just how senseless the initial animosity is.

Example: MLG Pro Ghostayame recently published an article over there. Do you know what he did when he first got Reach, before playing MM etc.? He played through the campaign solo on legendary. In that article, he also preached the importance of understanding the whole game, default settings etc., as players who understand even the things that aren't in MLG will understand the basic nature of the game better and be able to perform better in any settings. Furthermore, he talked about how you have to enjoy the game you're playing or you'll never do well. These are things that are so often neglected by the tryhards, and such considered attitudes are generally not appreciated by the outside critics.

With respect to the 'they' you mentioned above then yes, I'd agree. They often are basing their vehemence on simply being frustrated by dying at the hands of something they see as even slightly overpowered, and so go off on one. But as for those who actually design the gametypes, I'd once again disagree, it's all down to context. When a match is being played on the mainstage between strong opponents, even for large amounts of money, the difference made by an overpowered addition can be significant. There's no equivalent for this in the casual crowd, and I feel that many outside observers often forget this and judge based on things like the playlist, what they see of MLG. The gametypes are not designed with the playlist in mind, they are designed for the Pro Circuit and what would work there, the playlist exists only to allow them to be played easily by fans/competitors.

If the skill required to use a certain weapon, AA or whatever is not balanced against how much reward it gives, then it will be abused. It will become the thing that is fought for in the game as the players are aware of the definite advantage it can give over a more skilled opponent, and someone playing for the win will not ignore this chance.

Again, I feel this is unfair and shows an ignorance of the kind of discussion that can go on over at the MLG forums. I won't deny that there are plenty of people who do simply want what they're used to replicated in the newest game, but discussion around what should and shouldn't be included in Reach MLG has been rife since release and still is. Hell, there's a thread over there right now proposing Focus Rifle starts simply for a consistent competitive experience. I'm not saying I agree with that, but it goes to show that 'MLG attitudes' are not as clear cut as the majority of outside critics appreciate.

As you're no doubt aware, they're meant to be competitive before fun, though variety is a key aspect in making a map competitive as well as fun (plus you have to remember that MLG is a spectator sport and this figures somewhat in design decisions). On the subject of dull map designs, I don't think that's universally true, but even I can't stick up for the gametype designers in this case. I'm guessing this is based on H3 since there are no community maps in Reach MLG yet, and those two were just Middy reinventions. KC really should have been a little more bold in trying out new map designs on the Pro Circuit, but again if you look trough the community you'll find many who agree with me and it just shows the diversity of opinion generally not appreciated by outside observers. Though things look more positive on this front with respect to Reach MLG, hopefully we see some more interesting designs make it on to the circuit.

The tryhards are the vocal lot, and frankly those who take a more balanced approach to MLG are often not so inclined to be as vocal to a casual community which is, in many cases, just as condescending towards them as the tryhards are in their outward personas. Again, it's mostly self propogating and people on both sides are often overly confrontational about it and don't make enough of an effort to understand reasons and cross sections of either side before forming a largely emotional judgement.

Now that is completely fair. If you don't enjoy it then there's no reason to play it, if you don't identify with the core ethic of design then you won't enjoy forging for it much. I'm by no means suggesting you're not entitled to your opinions, I just feel that they are sightly tending towards the somewhat uninformed view of MLG which so often propagates a personal dislike for it as opposed to just saying 'to each their own' and accepting that fun and competitive are somewhat distinct purposes for gametype design.

 

That was the word from customs last night with Ponytar.
The question was raised if sprint is staying or going, and his answer is they're still playing around with it. However, I do believe in a news update some time ago KC had said sprint was here to stay... Which the fact that its now up in the air is a bit of a reversal. I'm assuming they're meaning sprint as a starting equipment.

As for the rest of your wall of text, I've got nothing. I agree with you almost 100% on it all. But goodness sake Pegasi! Stop posting such long replies!

 

Sanctuary - I am not fond of this version, although it plays better than Asylum I cannot help but feel it is a cold and unimaginative forge - perfect for MLG.? IMO that is.

 

Sanc was created by KC (the gametype designer), so it's not technically a community map. Also, it's a remake, imagination doesn't really come in to it. Sure it's pretty bland looking but to be fair it was made specifically to reduce framerate issues so was supposed to be as simple as possible. The version someone made on Tempest is a little prettier though.

 

Pegasi - I don't want to disrupt the basic conversation here too much, so I won't do a detailed reply. Hopefully it will suffice to say that many of my comments are aimed at the MLG tryhards, who are the most vocal and pervasive presence MLG has online. I don't believe they fairly represent the original opinions or intentions of MLG as an organization - but to the casual player who just wants to get an idea of what MLG is about, those folks end up becoming the voice of MLG simply by the volume and frequency of their utterances.

The rest of what I said (pertaining to the gametype settings and weapons list, etc.) is more about MLG itself, which probably ought to be separated out into its own conversation. I should say at this point that I don't have a problem with anybody playing the game the way they want to play it, however that may be. But personally, if I were running MLG, I'd try to find an interpretation of the game (and this goes for Halo 3 as well) that hews closer to the game Bungie actually released. They clearly disagree, and that's fine; I just find the game they play comparatively unimaginative and repetitive.

MLG itself is fine, though personally I'm not interested in participating in it like I used to be (back in Halo CE). And lots of MLG guys are cool and see that casual gamers should be allowed to exist. (For example Schnitzel here is a buddy of mine and I think he is very reasonable about that stuff.) Lots of other MLG players though are judgmental to a fault, and I wish they wouldn't be. In that I think you and I are on the same page - the tryhards have been too central in defining how MLG is perceived, and how people think MLG perceives them in return, and it's only been to the detriment of the relationship between the two factions.

 

There's not a word you just typed that I could even begin to disagree with, though perhaps most importantly the bit about the thread jack . I'll take Schnitzel's advice and forego the massive rant this time, suffice it to say that my vehemence was unwarranted, apologies.

Back on topic: I personally wouldn't worry too much about the specifics of settings in terms of waiting for V3. I can't see the basic movement settings changing too much, and even if Sprint is removed as a starting AA (God forbid) I'd guess it'll still be a pickup which means map should still be designed with it factored in. Pretty much any good MLG map will also play well with default settings (barring difference in weapon/AA set on the map), and the only thing which makes that much of a difference in terms of building for the specific MLG settings is which jumps are possible around the map. Such things can generally be tweaked once you know what V3 will be like, so if your design is solid then the specifics of the current version shouldn't matter too much.

On a personal note, I'm always keen to see more asymmetrical MLG designs since a well balanced one can offer a much more varied and dynamic experience, especially for non static gametypes like Ball and Slayer. If you could do well when taking that direction then you'd certainly have my download.