One of the primary features of Solitude, a map I've been testing, is an elevated ring of platforms surrounding a central courtyard area. The platforms are reachable by several routes. The most obvious are the teleporter send-nodes at the base of each tower. The second is obvioiusly by jetpack. But I built in two separate sets of jumps that allow a player to reach the upper ring without a jetpack and without using the teleporters. During a testing session last night, I was told that the jetpack was a little too powerful on my map. I'm concerned that the players weren't able to see the alternate routes to the top that I'd planned to deliberately try to make the jetpack a convenience, but keep it from being too powerful. How do you highlight extra routes like this? They aren't difficult to hit if you try - I know because I can do them easily. The first route (featured above) consists of jumping from the courtyard's corner to the top of the door frame. From there, a jump to the diagonal glass sail lets you run up to the tower top easily. This one bothers me since someone specifically said they wished I'd included a way to get onto the glass sails after the match ended. The second route involves jumping onto the stone arches above the teleport send-nodes. From there you can jump to a small ledge embedded in each tower. A column to either side of the ledge gives the last bit of 'oomph' to reach the top.
To me that looks way too complicated to be intuitive to a player who didn't help design the map himself, particularly the second method (the first is not so bad). I'm also never in favor of multi-jump routes as they really break the flow - even someone who is good and fluid at jumping needs several seconds to do this kind of thing properly. I'd suggest to make part of it really obvious (like a ramp on the side of the tower, or coming up from the ground) so that the player will see it and put two and two together that a jump will get them there. I'd also suggest maybe ditching one of these entirely and just adding a regular ramp, grav lift, or man cannon. Alternate routes and skill jumps are nice icing on the cake, but first you have to have a really robust cake - meaning multiple ways to get to the position that are clear to every player from the first time they play the map.
Most of the time, jumps are not the best way to achieve alternate routes. Just think about it. If you're in the middle of one of these jumps and someone spots you, you're toast. Sure you make think you could get away or even out-shoot him, but with jumps you're usually looking to line up the next jump and there's little room to maneuver and strafe. This problem becomes magnified when there's a new player trying to learn your map. The jumps may not be clear at first and it may cost them a few deaths. The best way to create alternate paths to higher elevations is through the use of ramps. I haven't seen you map yet, but judging from the pictures, it might be hard to implement them. I would suggest using some lifts to help players get up there. There can fit in tons of places, and they're a lot better then jumps or teleporters. If you still insist on using the jumps, they can be accented by some eye-catching aesthetics. Objects that have lots of color (such as those braces you're using) are excellent way to attract attention to an area. If that doesn't do the trick, perhaps adding some grenades of the jumps would help. They'll encourage people to use the jumps in order to grab them.
Thanks for the feedback, guys. The jumps off the rocks, I think I'll try to replace with ramps. I did see some folks trying those, and it might just be a process that takes too long. I really like the other set of jumps - and it's pretty quick if you're intentionally trying to hit it. But I think I'll add a couple of Grav lifts as well to provide more visible routes upwards. I've got a few places where I think I can fit them in. I was really concerned about this since I had deliberately designed this so that the jetpack wouldn't be overpowered. I'll put a link up to the map in a bit for anybody who's interested in taking a look. I'm planning to enter it in the Forgetacular, once I think I've gotten all of the rough edges smoothed out. **Edit** Here's a link to the map in my fileshare if anybody's interested in looking at it. I've added two grav lifts, two man cannons as well as making clarifying the 'back' jump-route with some ramps and other rock pieces.
Building off of what cartoonwolf said, when you're performing a jump, you have to be much more focused on how you're going up than if you were to go up a ramp. On a ramp, that focus can be much more applied to killing your enemies. Also, generally, even if you have a lot of non-ramp routes to the top, that area will be very overpowered. It's much easier to kill someone going up a lift, going through a teleporter, or jumping-up, than it is to kill someone coming up a ramp. I'd consider redesigning a few areas of the map the accommodate the addition of a couple of ramps to the top of the map.
As someone who tested the map, I personally felt like the rock jump was actually a pretty nice set. The height of the rock actually gives you some cover. I managed to get a few kills while attempting this jump just because i could see down on the guys shooting at me, but if i got major damage, i could continue to the far side of the rock and hide. I also spotted this jump the first time playing (and attempted it, though i couldn't find the column to complete it). Maybe if you turn the 3 by 1 block on a 30 deg angle so you can jump off of that instead of the column, it'd be better. The other thing I might look into changing is swaping the teleporters in relation to recievers. Up top, I always knew when someone was coming through the teleporter because I could see them on my radar below me right up to the point they went through. I feel like this is what really made the jetpacks have the big advantage. They can fly up right away and for everyone else, the teleporters were a dangerous path and the jumps weren't necessarily intuitive.
Hrmm. For my latest iteration, I've replaced the rock-jumps with ramps that should be easier to see and navigate. (Largely because that was the route that I thought was trickiest and required changing direction.) If you're interested, you can check it out off my fileshare or hit me up when you see me in game. I'm hoping that the grav lifts and man-cannons I've added will help with that. I can definitely understand what you mean now about the jetpacks. I'm not sure where else to put the teleporters, but I'll look for some other potential locations. As an aside, I'd noticed in playing that going through the teleporters seemed to kill your forward momentum (aiding in making you a nice target for anybody above who was waiting.) I've resolved that. (I think it had to do with getting caught on the base of the sender node as you were transported.) I've made a few weapon changes that I don't think are reflected on the fileshare, but I'm just about ready for another round of testing. Thanks for chiming in, General! I really appreciate the feedback.
No problem. I really enjoyed the map, it just took a little more work as a sprinter. As for teleporters, i think locations are fine, just make current sender 1 match receiver 2. This would teleport you to the other side keeping you off the radar of someone near the receiver.
Awesome. I'm glad you've enjoyed it. My wife can attest that I've hovered over it, fidgeting and fussing over every detail. I'm proud of what I've got with it, but I want to make it the best that I can. I see what you mean now about swapping teleport receivers. That's a nice and easy fix to the problem. Of course, it also means that the person going through the teleport has no idea if there's somebody waiting by their receiver node, but that's probably the 'fairer' option in most cases. I'll have that swapped up for the next testing session. I'm thinking of testing it as FFA next time, just to see how that handles, though I'll still want to get at least one more team effort as well to get a film with the new version. Thanks again for the feedback. I hope you can be a part of the next test group.
Ooooh, I can see FFA being insane on that... and about the teleporters, that's how I see them being the most fair as well. That's how most maps are, you don't know who's waiting for you until you get there. Sign me up. I'm almost finished with my Gunship map, just need to kill my self a few hundred times in the real Republic Commando map so I can figure out where to place spawns. Anyways, I should have some time to work on that in the next few days so let me know when you get that group going
The latest version of Solitude has a fix to the teleporters. They'll now take you to the tower directly opposite (thus, the furthest one away.) With two grav lifts right next to the central courtyard, and two man-cannons on the perimeter wall, that should help put a dent in the jetpack's superiority on the map. One of the things I wanted to do was make it a convenience, but not a necessity. The Forgetacular customs have been excellent for meeting more folks in the forging community. I think you and the others have pretty much cemented Reach as a long-haul game for me.