They need to make sprint default, it adds a level of sneakiness to the game that just makes it so fun. Being an intelligent, rather than skill player (walshy's play style,) i find it lame that they are trying to limit map movement. I also think that they need to embrace using ALL of the different AA's as a power-up, because they are truly game changing if used properly. It is so much easier to balance Armor Lock than a rocket launcher, while also having a greater reward. Honestly, MLG needs to just forget about Halo: 2. They refused Equipment in H:3 just because it wasn't included in H:2, which is plain stupid. Its similar, but equipment was added to make the game MORE balanced with all of the different weapons. And to tbh, a needler took more skill to use than a battle rifle. If they try to turn Reach into another H:2, it will fail miserably for several reasons. For starters, most people are tired of Halo 2 and want a new game, so it will get almost no popular support. Secondly, it just wont work with Reach's system; its designed for a much more complex and intuitive style rather than a simple skill and practice based play. If they don't, i'm reasonably certain that a massive chunk of the MLG community will simply leave and Halo support will become minimal. Which is terrible, because i love the competitiveness of it.
Not all the AAs imo, just because the principle is incredibly sound, even fundamental to making Reach what it is, doesn't mean every decision Bungie made is perfect for MLG. Though AL isn't nearly as bad in a highly coordinated team game where it's only a powerup and not something that can be selected by multiple people at the start of a game, I still don't see why it's there. It does nothing to enhance the competitive game overall imo. But I agree on a default Sprint personally, that's probably my biggest gripe with it. No. You'd be surprised about popular support, massive amounts of the MLG community are for no AAs at all, basically H2 like you say. But they will alienate massive amounts of potential new interest from people who enjoy default Reach, which would be sad and kinda stagnant, in keeping with your whole point about moving forward as opposed to looking back (something I agree with completely). But I still don't know how much of a massive chunk those really forced out by it would be.
I'm going to have to agree with Pegasi here. I mean, equipment in Halo 3 just made it too easy for noobs to camp in a bubble shield with shotty, or BR people with a regen. One thing I'd like to see though, is MLG making great use for the loadouts. No sprint. MLG does have swords and shotguns. Sprint will make these over-powered. Or anyone from MLG pro list for that matter.
MLG doesn't have Swords, though tbh I think it should even with the addition of Sprint. The parry has a great impact on this power, sure it's harder to do against a sprinting opponent but far from impossible even for moderately skilled players. Every time I'm using the Sword and come up against people who actually know what they're doing, it becomes massively less effective. Shotgun maybe, though tbh I'd rather see that axed than used as a reason to not include Sprint. It (Sprint) adds a dual level of pace to the game which makes outsmarting an opponent that much more skilful and strategic, as well as complimenting the individual skill game massively.
I will defend myself on the BR vs Needler. For starters, the BR is effective at every range; the needler is not. The BR can work in tight, cornered environments, places with cover, and wide open areas all together; the needler can only do one of those well and the other two of those with luck. The BR can be used in conjunction with your team; the needler cannot. Maybe not more skilled, because needler is just point n' shoot, but the BR was way more powerful and even held more ammo. I could get three/four kills a clip with the BR, and ammo was everywhere. The needler on the other hand was one a clip, and ammo was very sparse. My whole point with that was the needler became more difficult to get kills with than a STARTING weapon, which makes no sense at all. And they even lowered shields to make the BR more of a threat overall, further reducing the effectiveness of other weapons as well. The gameplay in MLG was already in danger of becoming stale because of a lack of diverse weapons, and this furthered the gap even more. It made it less about intelligence, and more about who has more free time to practice. This could, in fact, be used as an argument that Battle Rifle was the LEAST skilled weapon in terms of intelligent use, because it works at every range in every situation. As long as you have a BR, you dont need to think; only shoot. Even the rockets require more thought since you have to take the time to guess where your target is going to be when the rockets get there, and make sure that your target doesnt have enough time to dodge them. /brrrrrrrrrrrrant However, H2 BR is the shizzzzz
Exactly, just because something is less useful in more situations doesn't make it more skilful, and anything that relies on luck in important situations is even less definitively skilful. It'd be like saying the weakest, most range restricted weapon in the game takes the most skill to use because it's the least effective in the most situations. Requiring a very specific, focused kind of smarts is not the same as requiring the most skill, this is exactly the debate that was had in the AR thread tbh. But the skill required to do the most damage was the highest (with the BR, that is), the gradient was the steepest, and overall it ended up being the most powerful because people who got good with it could get REALLY good with it, making it pretty much the most skilful weapon (though I'd argue the sniper pipped it overall, just was a power weapon as opposed to a utility weapon so was kinda different) The needler was harder to get kills with because it was a very specific weapon, not because it took more skill, again back to my 'hardest to use doesn't mean most skilful, biggest skill curve and reward per unit of skill does' point. Also they didn't lower shields, they upped damage modifiers by 10% to try and account for the inconsistent nature of the H3 BR, especially at range. This ups the damage done by all weapons just as much as it did the BR, and tbh nothing in the MLG weapon set was hurt by the BR becoming more consistent. Halo 3 MLG was more about intelligence, strategy and teamwork than either H2 or CE ever were. This is, in fact, the single biggest complaint about it in the MLG community, in that it was all about strategy and practice as opposed to raw skill like H2 and CE were. Skill =/= intelligence in basic terms, and again, just because something is stupidly hard to use and ineffective in most situations doesn't mean it takes more skill. Just more smarts, and only smarts of a certain kind since it generally focuses the strategy required but therefore reduces diversity of strategy. For example, a shotgun necessitates a certain type of approach, ie. force enemies in to very close quarters situations, otherwise it's incredibly ineffective. This is far from diverse, nor does it require massive intelligence. Ineffective =/= skilful. Seriously, what? You're gonna complain about how effective the H3 BR is and then say the H2 BR was better? The reason they upped the damage was to make the H3 BR more like the H2 one. The autoaim on that thing was INSANE compared to any Halo game before or since, it was more powerful and arguably easier to use, I really fail to see your point if that is your parting note.
I'm very confused too, what i took from it is that we both like the opposite things for the same reasons, which is strange, but to each his own. Arguing semantics is pointless because i usually end up changing my mind about it in a couple weeks anyway. And i still love the game a ton lol, made so many long nights that much longer (in a good way!) Btw, finally got on a decent computer to watch that SD footage, and i have to agree with you that it pretty much exemplifies the BORINGness of that stupid map.... gah! Its fine to play on when people DONT camp those areas, but theres really nothing else on the map to attract attention. Everything else is either SUPER exposed, or has no LoS at all.
True enough, though tbh I think the point of disagreement is more what constitutes skill, I just don't think that forcing an ineffective weapon on an unsuited situation constitutes skill. As I said, it's like the AR thread we had a while back, true you have to know how to use it to make it effective, but once you know that (force close range situations, this slowing and reducing diversity gameplay to match the extremely restricted nature of the AR itself) it's suddenly much more powerful simply for knowing the trick to it, as opposed to having to drastically increase coordination, overall awareness at varying ranges, and most other aspects of basic individual skill. Exactly, but the amount of people who don't camp that tower is next to no one, and for the most part they're so awful (if they can't get the basic and only strat to that map) that you could probably take them out even if they did try it. Spawning makes me cry, honestly.
Reach needs Sprint, plain and simple. As much as people on the MLG forums whine and cry about an imaginary world in which players sprint away from every fight and nobody ever shoots each other or dies, the game is just plain worse without it. In a perfect world, we could up the regular run speed to 150+% without the slippery movement problem, but this isn't a perfect world or a perfect game. Jetpack is good too, and I stand by the statements I've been making since the beta that the jetpack would be good as an alternative to sprint for specific situations/maps. If it turns out that players never pick it over sprint, well, at least it's not getting in the way of gameplay. Evade and armor lock would be good as pickups on the maps. Evade because it's a direct upgrade to sprint (same speed long distance, much faster short distance) but stupid when everyone has it and armor lock because it's actually good when it's limited to one per map.
I just got a perfection. In Arena. On Reflection. Am I awesome now? I'm so happy, I don't want to punch Pistola in the face. Heretic>Capture the Flag>D.C. You see Neighbor with the sword. Anywho, I'm still against sprint. MLG already has increased speed, and whenever I use sprint, I don't ****ing die, because I run fifty miles to cover when I know I'm losing a battle. So it's going to make getting kills so much more difficult. If EVERYONE has sprint, that's a different matter. Then I'm fine with it. Either everyone should have it, or make it so that it can be picked up on the map. Armor lock needs to go, I'm sorry. It completely defeats the purpose of having an overshield on the map. And an overshield requires much more strats in my opinion. Evade? It's a sexy loadout, and I love it, but I don't know how people would cope with it in MLG. Camo is pointless. There isn't any radars, and you'd have to crouch your way to the enemy team. Active Camo would work better on most maps, but I guess I could see it happening if it replaced camo on the smaller maps.
I got denied a perfection the other day. On Asylum. With a Rampage. And a Be the Bullet. Because I died in the last 1.5 seconds of the game and ended up 20-1. I was so anrgy, even I would have punched Pistola in the face. But seriously, nice . Halo Reach MLG settings do not currently include the Sword, and I think you'll agree that whether or not the implementation of Sprint in to H3 would be detrimental is, in quite a few ways, a moot point.... [quotw]Anywho, I'm still against sprint. MLG already has increased speed, and whenever I use sprint, I don't ****ing die, because I run fifty miles to cover when I know I'm losing a battle. So it's going to make getting kills so much more difficult.[/quote] MLG currently has 120% speed, which is a bit much imo. The core of what I'd like to see with MLG settings is 110% and Sprint (agreed with Ladnil on Jetpack, though I'm far less emphatic on that point because I'll never use it ), which feels really great imo. I'd really suggest trying it in some customs to see how you like it. As for being able to outrun everyone and not die. I can identify with that tbh (already got 500 toward my thousand weekly kills challenge and haven't played at all tonight), ya know why I think it is? Because most people are really ****in awful dude. That's not an insult to you any more than it would therefore be to myself, just saying that against people who know what they're doing, have a good shot, actually know how to use Sprint, and (most importantly) work in a coordinated team setup, Sprint just isn't the combat killer that everyone calls. Good people vs good people, both in actual coordinated setups (which is the basis of MLG), sees Sprint fit right in as enhancing the game in both a skilful and strategic sense imo. That's what I'm suggesting, or something in line with what Ladnil said in having either Sprint or JP as starting options. Again, whilst I agree wih Ladnil that inclusion of JP in this starting choice would also enhance the game, I'm gonna be really partisan here and not fight that point as hard because I personally don't care as much in how I play . Again, Reach MLG does not have overshield, thus it defeats no purpose, I really don't get what you're talking about. But look, I'd agree with you straight up after playing any game against someone who used AL even once, and even right now I'm tempted to. But I can agree with Ladnil again that, as a map pickup and not a starting choice, and within a highly competitive, team work based framework, it's not actually...too bad. I think it'd work great as a pickup tbh. I'd like to think I know what Frag trolling sounds and reads like, this not being it, but seriously, what? Again, no camo pickup in MLG settings, and even if there were, it functions exactly the same as the Camo AA in Reach, fades with increased speed to being useless at full walking speed and next to useless at anything more than a slow, crouched sidle. Aside from that, yeah agreed, I don't personally see Camo having a great place in MLG. Personally, I'd like to see: 110% speed, 110% jump (I could happily live without 200% grav but can see the logic there and wouldn't mind getting used to it, much as it kills sprint jumping around like a cloud...), 75% melee modifier, Pistol secondary as base trait changes. Sprint or JP as the starting loadout options, the latter only where appropriate though since it does have that vertical advantage if a map just isn't designed for it to work (there are precedents for map specific gametypes in MLG, even past CTF variants). And Evade and AL as pickups. Overall, exactly what Ladnil said on the AA front in fact. Also, gimme back my Sword, bitches. Then I would go from really not liking MLG settings much at all, either to play or to watch, to the point of spending 4+ hours a day in the playlist whenever it appears. If these changes happen, I will be a very happy man.
MLG v2 is likely going with 110 speed, sprint starts, evade and jetpack as pickups on the map. Discuss. And since someone is sure to ask me my source, those settings are what KC has been running test games on according to people who played with him.
I think they are *goes back to MLG settings thread to check* I support these settings. Reach without Sprint doesn't work well, evade is fun as hell to use, and the jetpack is vital to some of the maps. I still wish JP was a loadout, but I can see why it's not. I expect that these are very close to what the final settings will look like for the 2011 season. Map adjustments from here on out, but few or no rule adjustments. Still waiting for them to figure out a good use for custom powerup though. Any of you have thoughts on that? I like damage amplifier for it, personally, but there are many possible uses.
I'm opposed to sprint simply because the maps are already difficult to control and it's too easy to utilize simple tactics like grouping together instead of taking up tactical positions. Sprint really doesn't promote team coordination, in my mind. Yes, you can run in to help a teammate or run away, but when you're running that's downtime when you're not shooting. I just think it would make MLG into more of a run N' gun type play with a lot more chasing. I think smarter teams won't even use it that much because they'd be better off pushing together and shooting together instead of rushing in. It'd ruin the arena maps for sure.
Many of the "arena" maps submitted were huge when used without sprint, as are the maps on the disk. Torque, Saltire, and maybe a couple others were the only ones actually sized appropriately for Reach arena play without sprint. /built my arena before MLG v1 settings, when I thought they'd use sprint. //could totally see the future ///not really ////I gotta stop using slashies outside of Fark.
Have you not tried forging? I didn't read any of your post, except for that. Again, have you not tried forging? You can definitely put an overshield on the map. Knowing MLG, they're most likely going to forge that in.
Have you not looked at the MLG settings? I know full well there's an overshield in the game, but have you seen it used on any of either the v1 or v1.1 settings? Didn't think so. 'Most likely' my ass. There has apparently been talk about having a CPU, but even in this discussion (which, as yet, has not amounted to anything actually being implemented to my knowledge) settings have not even been confirmed as being overshield like they were in H3. Considering you could only be bothered to read that single sentence, you really should have taken the time to read it properly. It said "Reach MLG does not have overshield". Now, if you can point me to where, in either the current, or even past MLG Reach settings it includes any mention of an overshield, I'd be very interested to see it. Did I say that "Reach MLG will never have overshield?" Right, again didn't think so. To assume it's going to be included as you seem to have done is jumping the gun, but to base decisions on what else should be included on the basis of this assumption is, frankly, stupid. You're not stupid dude, I know you're not, please try to display that in here, especially before trying to talk down to me . Might wana go back and read the rest of that post now, just a thought.
Who said V1 was official? I never said that there was one in MLG, but I said there would most like be one. The MLG community will continue to beg for Halo 2 settings. wut? I stand by what I said. Frankly, I never said there was an overshield. I never claimed there was one in Reach. I believe what I DID say was; "They will most likely forge one in." Why do I say this? Because there is a steep learning curve between Reach, and Halo 3. If there wasn't, then there would already be pros in Halo: Reach. And as it's been stated, by several officials, "THERE ARE NO MLG PROS IN REACH, BECAUSE IT TAKES TIME TO MASTER A NEW GAME." So they are most likely going to flatten out that curve, so that they may get MLG Reach competitions as soon as possible, with the current Halo 3 pros. Don't be a hypocrite, if you ask me to "study a post" I would suggest you do that to before we can have an actual discussion. Regardless, we won't know until the FFA Bic pro tournament is over. That's what Killa KC is watching for to see how the gameplay turns out.