perfect planar alignment vs. visual organization? !UPDATE(with solution on page 3)! what is more important to you guys? -that objects line up on the same plane(yet may not be visually organized) or -that objects are visually organized(yet may be only slightly misaligned from the same plane) I've run into this problem several times now with a new map. Previously I was only concerned with aligning planes perfectly; if I could run across objects without my character stepping up or down in the slightest way, I was happy. One flat plane was the goal. Then I submitted my first map and one critique was that the planes weren't visually organized and that it messed with the visual perspective. This was something that I didn't even think about, but understand completely. However now I am frustrated because I'm at a point in a new map where I must either sacrifice visual appeal for one perfectly flat plane or vice versa, and there is no other possible alternative. So what do you prefer? perfect planes or visual organization? Keep in mind the slight differences in plane alignment are quite minor but I need them to be perfect(OCD).
Can you provide an example of this? I mean sometimes problems like these can be solved by simply doing a 1 degree rotation in the object.
Certainly, ok check out this screenshot. see in the top left of the picture how the large circular staircase walls are visible through the 3x3 flat building block? it's visible because there's glass in the building block, there's no protrusion but does that bother anyone visually? because the planes line up pretty well.
That bothers me somewhat, but I'd be a lot more bothered if I skipped upward when walking over it, or if (Heaven forbid) I couldn't walk over it.
Personally I prefer flat surfaces; z-fighting (and other related visual issues) doesn't really bother me much. I usually don't notice too much unless I'm in forge, or I can see it from a distance at some downward angle. I figure that if I'm looking at the floor, how can I shoot my enemies?
Click down on the left stick to tilt the circular walkway slightly so it does not show through on one side, but does not create a bump on the other. Good luck with your map.
Now that is a dilema, looks bad but its necessary to make the map work, my only suggestion is to tilt the objects somewhat slightly to make the top dissapear below the surface
I'd argue the tilt solution as a last resort, I suppose, but I'd just as soon suggest simply bringing the 3x3 up just barely, using fine controls (or using a different object that doesn't have the glass). As far as rotating the circular tamped large, good luck. Maybe the small rotations work fine for that, but I find rotating that item like I want it to be a pain in the freaking ass, more than any other. But, I was having frustrations forging with that piece earlier tonight, so whatever. Personally, I'm big on keeping things even and level and stuff, so I would sacrifice the little bump instead of rotating the walkway a bit. If you're OCD enough (like I am, as Angel of Grief will testify to), you'll notice very very slight bumps when moving from some objects to others, even when said objects are exactly the same, placed at the same height, and lined up perfectly. I'm just trying totrain myself to fix the big bumps, and ignore the little, irritating, unfixable ones.
i always try to avoid z-fighting, although i try to get it as close as possible, something bungie hasnt made easy. Usually you can get it close enough in fine editing mode to walk over without the bump, but it involves a lot of up, down, up, down, up up down , up , down down...
Personally I go for visual. It can be annoying if you have lots of little things like that sticking through. Yea you may not be affected by then when you walk over them but it can get really confusing and hard to tell where you can go, where you can't and where you need to go. If you raise that block just high enough to no longer see the ramp then raise the others to match the only real place there might be a bump is when stepping off the ramp onto the first block since you are already moving upwards the affect will barely be noticeable if at all. So you can still have minor bumps in the game you just have to be selective about where they are.
Visual doesnt matter worth a rats ass, if somebody puts that over gameplay i could honestly care less about the rest of their map. I could be given a game that is flashing the whole way and nearly impossible to see, but as long as its competitive and fair i'll be happy with it. Thats my opinion at least, visual is nice to add as an afterthough, so finding a compromise may be your best bet.
I agree but there is a point at which visuals will make a map bad, I saw one pit remake that was built out of pure grey blocks, that looked so bad IMO that it wasnt even worth downloading and trying it out
I say raise it by .1, and add a small incline at the top of the ramp so you dont bump going onto the 3x3
you can also solve that problem by covering it up with another object on top of it. just do it in a way that looks good and doesnt look like a cover-up.
I know some people are very picky. Tba I hate Aesthetics, I think all anyone should care about is is that the textures aren't flickering and that you can walk over the surfaces with out the feeling like you're on a bumpy road.
I usually will fix things like this by redesigning the area a little bit. For example if something overlaps like in the screenshot, use a larger object on one side to cover up the overlapping part; or lower it a little bit relative to the rest of the plane, and use a small incline or other object to make sure the transition is still smooth and bump-free. But that may not be a good solution for some people. Some maps I see look about like that screenshot, where it appears everything was laid out with mathematical precision. I like my maps to be a little funkier, with unusual changes in elevation and interesting structures here and there rather than just blocks and ramps. I think it makes the map more appealing and unique, as long as the flow of it is still natural and easy for the players to navigate.
Those flickering textures and bumpy surfaces are part of how I define aesthetics... it's gotta look nice, and that means getting rid of z-flickering and uneven walking surfaces.
Thanks to the objects that are available in Forge, this happens a lot. I lean toward making the map better looking, but everyone has their opinion on this. One trick I've found very helpful for transitioning between floors that are 0.1 apart in height is the "Cover" decoration object. If you rotate it so that the slight angle is facing up and place it so that it's highpoint lines up with the higher floor, you have an instant ramp that eliminates any bumps... Hope that helps...
Z fighting is perfectly fine in a map. As far as your screenshot...That wouldn't go by with me at all. I like making maps clean as possible...I do try to avoid 'Z fighting' problems with my maps but sometimes I have to leave them "Z fighting".
I have to disagree with death yoyo here. Aesthetics can have a serious effect on gameplay because light and nice looking pieces attract attention and problems like z-fightig can distract players. If your map is not clean, it won't play as such. Ideally everything should fit together so players can focus entirely on the game.