Armour lock is a great counter to vehicles, and in doubles arena having a team mate with armour lock and you having sprint/evade or vice versa, it can be an effective combo. Sprint to save guy in armour lock, he/she comes out of lock when sprinter draws fire and team shot the enem/y/ies. Its all down to how you use it and how your team encoporates it. Of course in FFA its hoping that someone else picks off the enemy while you lock, and then hoping you can kill that enemy or that enemy does not see you.
And i'll use your example to prove my point; its too easy to use well and is an ace in too many situations. Go off listing every way that armor lock becomes a power-card in your head, then list all of the other AA's combined. Strangely enough, armor lock is easier to use and offers more reward than all of the others combined, so it becomes overpowering. The other ones are harder to use and offer less reward, if they made the others more powerful it would be fine, but then they would have to also raise the weapon potential to make it even not based entirely on AA's, and have officially created CoD 6. Orrrrrrrrr they could make it possible to assassinate someone in armor-lock and then it would become a hugely skill-based ability that was not 100% effective, and it would make this the most fairly built game to date.
It wouldn't be so bad if you couldn't turn fast when you're looking behind yourself. I've had many instances that if I didn't turn, I would have been assassinated. Even then I find myself laughing more if I use the Hologram around corners and in platform maps.
And that's a 2v1 situation. If the Locked enemy has a teammate, then why the hell don't I have one? We can both take down the Locker's teammate in a fraction of a second, and he won't give any resistance because as long as teammate numero uno is Locked, he can't contribute to saving his teammate's life. So, once we eliminate the lone teammate, we can focus on the Locker, who won't even be at full Shield when he emerges. Micro-manage. It's not that hard... Edit: If the "Locker" gets out of Lock early, he'll only have a heavily damaged teammate to fall back on. He is out of the game while Locked. No negative effects towards him, no negative effects towards us. While locked, he doesn't even really exist. We have to "fear for him coming out of lock at any time"? Malarky! Looking at one immoving player isn't a hard feat to accomplish, but you blow it so far out of proportion that Armor Lock almost sounds unbalanced becaus of that one single effect. Shame on you, HarisSales.
The only player that is forced to not move ("stand around") is the player who armor locks. The player dealing with an armor locked opponent does tend to stand around, I agree; But that is their choice. The typical response a player encountering another armor locked player has can certainly be counted as something that affects gameplay, but I don't think it can be counted as an aspect of armor locking in terms of balance.
Who says you don't have a teammate going against the armor locking player? It doesn't matter. The ability is still postponing the player's death at no risk, with no skill involved, and with no possible counter besides standing around and waiting. When I said it was being treated like a 1v1 situation, that was in response to the idea that somehow locking is just as bad as death because you can't move which is just not true in any way. Shame on you. What are the other options? Retreat or get shot in the back?
Haha. Those are two, and your point is definitely well taken. Other options include shooting their teammates if they are around, backing away, moving to a better vantage point / switching weapons to be ready for them to come out of armor lock, etc, etc. The only point I'm trying to make is that I think a lot of the perception of armor locking as an unbalanced AA is due to undeveloped tactics (and I definitely include myself). I do agree that that is not the sole reason it is perceived as imbalanced, because it probably is the most powerful AA when used well. I don't think it would hurt to weaken it a bit. Coming out of armor lock at 0 shields might be interesting. The ability to assassinate an amor locked player would definitely take the ability down a notch. Another interesting tweak might be to take away the locker's ability to control the duration of the lock so that when a lock was initiated it would last for a few seconds and then end (using up half the ability power or something).
Armor Lock's counter AA is itself. If someone's using armor lock and you don't like it, use it yourself. This entire thread is about how unbalanced AL is against either no AA or any other AA. You haven't once tried to compare it to itself in a situation. The only reason you don't use it because you believe it takes no skill and that you will be labeled by people you don't know as a "noob" Honestly, quit bitching. Also, just looking back on the thread I've seen quite a bit of flaming... Don't do it because you'll end up looking like a fool later. That is all.
Now let's compare the advantages of other AA's Sprint: I can get around the map faster Jetpack: I can get to high places faster Evade: I can get into a good position faster Thank you for proving the point of this thread.
Keep in mind that these situations are great for armor lockers, but no always easy to come by. I think I'll name some ways other AA can be used to show that the AA are balanced. Also keep in mind over 70% of armor lockers don't use it right. Sprint and Evade are kind of limited, so I'm afraid I'll have to skip them Jet pack: 1) Everyone knows that it can be used to move around many levels easily. 2) Instant high ground. Having the high ground in reach is more important than it ever was in Halo 3, or any other halo game. Being able to push a button and instantly gain high ground is pretty important. 3) Avoiding danger. Grenade at your feet? No problem. Just jump and hit the gas, and that grenade is no longer a problem. 4) No falling damage. Did you just fall from a 1 million foot fall? That's ok, you have a jetpack! One small burst near the end of your fall and you'll be perfectly fine. 5) It just looks cool and is fun. Hologram: 1) Distracting that sniper, zombie, enemy with sword, ect. The most common use is sending out a hologram and distracting those enemies. Super affective with man cannons. 2) Making yourself look like a hologram. Look down, hologram, now run in a strait line! 3) Dot on the radar. This can be used in two ways. a) you don't move, and your hologram makes a dot on the radar. The enemy thinks he knows where you are, and attacks accordingly. You get a kill because of it. b) You have low health/shields and can't fight at the moment. You send out a hologram in the hopes that your enemy will see two red dots on the radar and fall back. Active Camo: 1) Being invisible! Those who use this well can be devastating in a game (kindof like armor lock.) This has a million uses, so I can't really go over each one. 2) Radar jammer. This can be very good in a team game. You and your three closest friends ( in a 4v4) attack the enemies. You activate active camo, and the enemy now has no idea where you, and more importantly, your teammates, are. Drop shield: 1) Similar to armor lock, being able to survive a huge hit from something like a wraith. 2) Medic! The ability to heal your health, and your teammates health, is very useful. 3) Remember all the uses for a bubble shield in H3? Me neither, but I'm sure they're out there. Any more uses of that can be applied here. Once again, these are just coming off the top of my head, and as I don't use any of these as much as I use armor lock, I don't have as many uses in mind. Added after 3 minutes: Saying it like that: Sprint: I can get around the map faster Jetpack: I can get to high places faster Evade: I can get into a good position faster Active camo: I can be invisible if I don't move fast Hologram: I can make a fake me Armor lock: I can become invincible and can't move or shoot Drop shield: I can make a bubble shield. If you don't explore ALL the possibilities, you're argument is invalid. (ignore the cliche.)
There is a major imbalance with armor lock, and thats in assault. I was playing on countdown and me and a friend armed the bomb, and the guy with armorlock walked in, went straight for the bomb, and armor locked on it until it was disarmed. There's nothing you can do to stop that except for killing him before he gets to it. Other than that, ARMOR LOCK IS INSANE! I was playing covvy slayer on hemmorage and all i used was armor lock and everyone was in ghosts. Tool of destruction was armor lock with 14 kills from ghosts, a few revenants, and a wraith (I think it was already damaged). Also a good strategy is to toss a plasma grenade on the ground or nearby wall then go into armor lock. Sometimes it will kill people.
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've been shots up on a guy, he locks and his team mate kills me. You say I should start shooting at said team mate? I do, but I'm generally either one shot or close to, and he's got a fresh shield because I was shooting at his team mate. It turns a kill, albeit a trade since the team mate would have cleaned me up anyway, in to a kill for them and nothing for my team. You can't count on every situation being even numbers in the sense of it either being a 1v1 (negating the team mate factor) or a 2v2 (off setting the factor of the AL guy's backup against your own), because it's so often not the case. Even in coordinated team games, 2v1 situations are incredibly common, and AL just serves to negate anything positive the guy on his own did to at least come out of the situation with a trade and possibly even some decent hits on the second guy. I'm completely with Ladnil on this one, and think that this sums it up perfectly: I just refer to it as the Pause Button now, since that's what it is. Nothing slows down gameplay like a pause button. I think a few things would be nice, on the note of your 0 shield suggestion then yeah, I can see where you're coming from. But even just not allowing recharge during the AL time would suffice in large part, it would mean you'd have to think about how to get out of the situation and not just have a pause button which actually gives you a headstart on the enemy when you're done pondering what to do. Also, quick flashes should be much harder or not possible tbh. If you only burst AL for a second, you shouldn't be able to do so again so quickly afterwards. I'd like to see the nature of the recharge time changed just for AL, something more similar to how the HRV works in Blacklight Tango Down (basically temporary wallhack vision if you haven't played the gam). With that, it has a charge bar which depletes when you're using it, but so you can't flash it on and off, even a quick split second of use will deplete the whole bar and it will have to fully recharge before you can use it again. The benefit of using it for less than the full bar at a time is that the bar recharges faster based on how much of it you depleted. For example, if you used AL for 1/6 of the charge bar, you still would have to wait for the full bar to charge before you could use it again, but it would charge 6 times as fast as if you'd used it for the duration of the whole charge bar. It would prevent spamming quite effectively imo. 1st bolded: Sorry, but that's an absolutely ridiculous statement. The entire point of a counter is something else that offsets a given weapon or ability etc. If the only way to counter something is itself, then it cannot be countered, only adopted. The only logical path is to always use it since it can't be beaten by anything else. Let's give an AA that instantly kills everyone on the opposing team whenever you use it, where ever they are on the map. That's not overpowered, why don't you just use it if you hate it so much? It counters itself... derp. 2nd bolded: You tell people to stop bitching and flaming, yet go and make one of these stupid assertions about why people disagree with you on a certain issue. In your 'looking back over the thread' to find things to be condescending about, did you miss all the cogent points put forward trying to argue why it isn't balanced?
For those who don't want to read... TL;DR- It's pretty balanced in actuality. ________________ Honestly I don't see how it is so unbalanced... albeit it is my favorite AA because I use it all the time (=D) but regardless, I can think of an equal if not more amount of ways it isn't OP compared to being OP. Now in honesty, I consider myself pretty good with it, as compared to the large mass of people who believe it is only to be used when you are about to die, so I use it a lot and amazingly... its my fourth most used competitive weapon... don't call me a noob just yet though. Anyway, on its positive side, I can list situations I have used it to turn the tables on enemies who have gotten the first shot at me, protect myself and whatnot. (NOTE: Some of these have been stated already, but I'm just making one big post here... so bear with me on those already mentioned) POSITIVES: 1) Pretty basic, but a vehicle is charging at you- like a ghost or mongoose- and in a normal situation, you'd honestly probably be splattered. With armor lock, a new tactic and strategy is introduced into the game that adds a fair amount of balance imo. Look it at this way, first of all, vehicles are mainly to be used on large maps or BTB- places like Hemorrhage, Boneyard, Paradiso, and Spire. On maps like these- especially Hemorrhage- where vehicles can easily overpower the other team and dominate, to have a counter makes for a very nice addition to the game. Not to mention it can also be used (if used correctly) to quickly AL and un-AL at an oncoming vehicle you can't counter, and simply EMP it. 2) One use I've made good work of, is countering the situations where an enemy goes in for the double melee. If you each have gotten that first melee in, you can really easily (with good timing) survive the encounter and get the kill if you AL as he goes in for his melee, immediately release, and melee back. It's not as easy because it relies on good timing by yourself and the enemy, but it has saved me plenty a time. 3) As mentioned before, it can be used to scout out a seemingly hidden enemy that got a first shot in at you, before you've lost your shields. This can get you in a position to, with good DMR skills, get the kill instead. 4) Surviving any and all explosions. Pretty self-explanatory. Though I admit it is heartbreaking to see that amazing stick you got go to waste via AL, it is a counter to what would normally be an automatic death. I've even gotten sooo lucky once as to AL and see the sticky stick the thrower in return, which was epic. 5) The EMP. Pretty self explanatory, but yea... if that attacker is close enough, you can take his shields down and go in for the finishing strike. NEGATIVES: Honestly though, I think every one of those situations can be countered, and then some. 1) So that ghost is charging at you... yea, you might get the awesome, badass looking kill on that ghost, but 9/10, a ghost isn't just alone with no one nearby. In a majority of situations in Halo, the enemy you are fighting is not alone- and they are usually within the distance to see you take out their ghost- which means when you've done that, there's a good chance that upon release of AL, a torrent of enemy fire will befall you, and you will probably succumb to it and die. Sometimes. Also, in those BTB maps like Hemorrhage, there is a good chance of a much bigger vehicle being nearby like a wraith which will have seen you take out the ghost, and now a mortar shot is incoming and you don't have much AL left. 2) In this situation with the double beatdown, as I stated, timing can be everything, and an untimed AL will probably result in death. 3) With the scouting, this relies on the skill of your DMR, and even still, in ALing and looking around, either you might not locate the attacker, or even worse, you do, but now you've a) wasted your AL on finding him and b) the time you've spent prone has given him time to reload and take precise aim, which also means any other enemy may have done the same. You've locked yourself into a deadly position before you can have taken a shot, instead of having tried to maybe just escape or get behind cover in which you can still move. 4) When it comes to explosions, just because you survived the first one doesn't mean you can survive them all. In regards to grenades, if you do just quick, short AL bursts as each grenade explodes, you will be fine, so long as the enemy has but two, maybe three grenades. But when it comes to other explosives, say rockets and fuel rods, it is a bit more challenging to time when the enemy will shoot. And with vehicles like Scorpions, Wraiths and Revenants... it is very improbable to really survive. You definitely can, if cover is nearby or friends or something, but since at most, you can maybe get three short armor locks in before it needs to recharge... maybe possibly four, (but I don't think so), then thats only about three shots you can survive. But then you are left without AL and with just a mortar launching tank in front of you. I've had this happen many a time, and while a good handful of times I've been able to get to cover between each shot, or something like that, a large amount of times I have been caught with my pants down in the middle of an open area, like on Hemorrhage or Paradiso, and it's just slowly postponing your own death. 5) The EMP. Honestly- I'd say around 7 to 8 times out of 10, this will not work. By now, a large majority of players know that standing directly behind or in front of or next to a currently ALed player will more than likely result in death. Most people know by now to stand a good 10-20 feet back if you can, or as far back as room will allow, and wait. The even more experienced know not to just aimlessly lob 'nades at the person, but to wait until they are close to running out of AL, then throw a nade, and hit them as they come out of it. This completely makes going into AL useless a lot of times, and will work against the user. 6) Another way AL is countered, is the fact that most people don't know how to correctly use it, which in itself, makes it just slightly more balanced. Plus, other AAs have the ability to OP AL. For instance, if someone is in AL, a Hologram could be sent out to stand on top of it. This can fool the AL user into quick turning and attacking the hologram, and then the Hologram...ist... can kill him. A jetpacker can simply fly above the AL and fire down... it goes on. To prevent myself from further rambling, I end here...\rant
Need I say more? Well I'm going to anyways. Jetpack takes incredible skill to use, and I don't mean just making a nice little jump up to some beams on powerhouse; I mean pulsing it to hover and shoot at an enemy or throw a grenade into a small doorway. Hologram's are incredibly easy to spot unless used skillfully, and only then do they actually become useful. Armor Lock can not only deflect a vehicle going in for the splatter, but instantly destroy it, and if this person wants to board it he can go into armor lock first then use the emp to freeze the vehicle. Now with evade I have the choices of jumping or diving out of the way. Of course that's balanced. Side not on active camo. I don't understand why people use this because picking out real players from the radar jammer effect is easy and you're only invisible when standing still (yay campers) or to anyone with a terrible tv.
So Pigglez, the negatives are, in order: 1) Sometimes you die when you come out of armor lock. 2) Sometimes you die if you mess up when you tried to get fancy with armor locking to counter a melee. 3) When you started shots down in a DMR fight and used armor lock to postpone your death, sometimes you die in the DMR fight when you come out of lock. 4) After you made the enemy waste his rocket/grenade/whatever, when you come out he shoots you again. 5) Most players aren't dumb enough to stand on top of an armor locked player. 6) Most people are idiots and don't use armor lock well. I'm sorry, but in each of those situations except number 2, you would die with or without armor locking, but the lock postponed the death, which is the entire point of the ability. Number 5 is the whole point of the EMP, so that you can't just assassinate someone instantly when they come out of lock. When I suggest that armor lock needs a counter, I mean there needs to be something an armor locking player fears. Something that would make him choose to try and escape or put out a few last shots before dying rather than just drop into armor lock. There is nothing like that. It is not "pretty balanced in actuality" just because you can die when you aren't armor locked.
I'd just make the lock a short burst type thing. You don't even switch to a third person view, you hit the bumper, a burst of energy expands out from your body, and for that second or two you stop shooting and become invulnerable. All the regular tricks with lock would work fine this way, better probably, and you'd never fall back on it like a crutch. And guarding against damage is a cool concept, but the fact that the lock is so powerful kind of takes away from that. Blocking and parrying should be an elegant push and pull, and kind of impressive when it succeeds, as it stands now the lock just seems really blunt and stupidly effective.
Two things to make armor lock balanced 1) sheild recharge wait is reset (or at least paused) 2) you can be assasinated right after coming out of armor lock.
I concur, all of the armor abilities are over-powered and negativity effect gameplay more than they help it, skill based at least. However, strategy based they add a new level to gameplay. I guess this is the main point of it, the armor lock is the most abused example but i can think of situations where i have been raped by teams of jetpackers (they got rockets and went like 1000 feet in the air and never missed, or sniped from an impossible place.) I've been overwhelmed by a team of evaders (holy ****, rader was almost solid red and they were all hard to see... and they moved in packs and eliminated us one by one. it was super creepy lol.) Hologram distracts me often (if i face someone else with as good a shot as me, that one miss could be fatal... plus radar messes with me.) I personally have torn other teams apart with sprint, stopping a flag cap because i covered half the map faster than he did and i can get to any power weapon before anybody. I see how i was wrong bro, and i'm awesome enough to admit it ;P
^ Yay! Lol I jokes. The way I see it, every armor ability has it's positives and negatives... and what they mainly do is add a new layer to gameplay, as Jex said. The problem we have with these, especially armor lock (for some reason), is they aren't characteristic of a Halo game. Sure, there was equipment you would use maybe 3x a game... but this new layer of armor abilities lets us use them 10+ times a game. That's what Bungie wanted. My proposal for those who still don't like armor abilities? Play ODST. Play H3. Play H2. Play H1. ..or just learn how to counter them
That's an excellent way of putting it, I could not have put it better myself. Though, my personal problems with armor lock are much like many of those stated in this thread already. But, I'll try to concisely explain my distaste for the ability. Armor lock ruins flow. This how it feels to me and many others I've talked to; I throw a grenade, opponent says "No that didn't happen," he comes out of lock, kills me because his grenade damaged me while mine did not damage him.