With release just around the corner and Reach's debut on the amateur circuit falling only a month afterwards, I thought it would be interesting to get people's thoughts on how MLG may pan out with the arrival of the newest Halo game. The most pertinent issues are probably things like possible gametype settings, there's quite a debate going over on the MLG forums right now as to what movement speed etc. should be. Possible maps are also a great topic, but essentially if it's to do with Reach and MLG then it's fair game in here (note that all forum rules on spoilers/leaked content etc. still apply, obviously). What would you like to see in MLG Reach? How do you think pros and teams will be affected by the transition? The time for wild conjecture has come! I'll probably update this OP with the more interesting or pertinent basic angles of discussion as they emerge, but for now we'll see how this pans out. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- For my part, I'm not a massive fan of Fragtality's proposed settings of 120% speed twinned with evade (there are some videos on youtube if you're interested, just have a quick search over there). I love the idea of 75% melee damage, I'm going to be sorely disappointed if MLG don't incorporate that, same for 110% jump height. But 120% speed just seems too fast for me, twin that with the catapult that is evade and you have yourself something closer to PC style shooters, too close if you ask me. Personally I'd like to see something more along the lines of what Ladnil and others have mentioned in terms of sticking to a standard loadout approach. Obviously this brings in a more complex dynamic and therefore I'd like to see it tested quite heavily once the game is released and MLG start coming out with settings, but honestly I agree that it could have massive potential for making Reach truly its own game in a really balanced way.
Yeah i agree. I honestly want to see Reach MLG as its own game, rather than attempting to make it the same as the previous with only minor adjustments. That setup did not do stellar in Halo 3, and it probably won't in Reach. Because, it IS a whole new game!
Definitely agree. It's the biggest departure from previous games so far in the Halo series imo, by quite a long way. Apparently KC is approaching it as such, though, so hopefully we shouldn't see it suffer this fate of being changed only to tune it to what people are already used to. In the very least, that would just be a waste of all the things Reach has added.
Did you mean 110% gravity, or jump height? And I hope to god they have loadouts, but specific loadouts for each map. As in the loadouts varying from map to map in terms of grenades and starting weapons. For instance if on swordbase, the Jet pack loadout had a DMR instead of a Needle Rifle (I'm not sure if the DMR is worse than the NR, I just picked one of the two).
The way I see it the "pros" are entering tournaments playing a different game to every one else. I would say I'm good at Halo 3 but MLG changes just enough for me to be no good in the MLG playlist. But why do they change so much? They have to have their own spawns, their own weapon layouts and their own player traits... Their excuse is it balances gameplay but I think it limits gameplay too much. Pros don't need to know how to play the whole game, just how to use a BR and watch the clock for the rocket spawn. I think proper Major League Gaming for Reach should use the standard loadouts. That would encourage more team work than the "everyone distract them while I snipe them from the other side of Narrows" I seem to see too much. Actually, I think I would prefer Major League Halo-Reach-Playing because then that does sound more like people who are good at Reach playing the actual game well. It would be better than people who are good at Reach but as long as there are only DMRs and no automatic weapons and no armour abilities. As for maps, I wouldn't have thought any of Reach's maps would meet MLG's criteria! So, of course, they'll make their own maps, their own gametypes, without AAs and limited weapon selection. Oh well, I'm going to have fun playing Halo Reach.
This thread doesn't need ignorant comments such as these. For the most part everything MLG does encourages a more balanced and competitive game. They are trying to achieve that in Reach. This thread is about speculation on how that will be achieved in Reach, and not about whether MLG has a place in halo. I for one am very excited to see what they come up with. I would like to try 120% speed with evade before I knock it though. It seems like it could be a step towards unreal tournament. It would also be much harder to rely on the aim assist I think, as well as making gameplay faster and more exciting. We'll see.
For starters, I think they need to keep the DMR and pistol a 5 shot kill. I personally think that a 4 shot is not necessary to keep the game fast paced. Another problem is it is impossible to make the DMR a 4 shot without breaking the sandbox since there is no bleed through damage (a sniper would be one body shot) so that option is pretty much out. For armor abilities, I see sprint and evade being a possibility. Reason I didn't include jetpack is because a good amount of MLG is picking the best path, not just flying everywhere. It is a possibility though, just smaller then sprint and evade. Those would need a lot of testing and depends partially on what the settings will be. I could see an armor ability being used as a central power weapon, like the camo. For maps, I really have no idea. I think boardwalk and countdown maybe, as well as sword base. Reflection will probably be in and I bet there will be forge maps. They may use bungies forge maps as well, like lockout and others I forget. There are a lot of potential weapons that can be used. DMR, Sniper, Rockets, grenade launcher, plasma repeater, needler rifle, focus rifle, pistol, Energy sword, concussion rifle, shotgun. Those all could be in, depending on how fast they kill and what the settings will be altered to. They will also probably use camo, overshield, and custom powerup. I thought I saw somewhere that you can customize multiple custom powerups per gametype so if that is possible, MLG will utilize that. I don't have a feeling for the movement speed since it was changed from the beta so I will need to play it to judge it. However, I doubt it is too fast so if it changes, it will just be a slight increase, like 110%. Bumping up the speed too much, however, would be a guarantee of losing evade as you would catapult everywhere and possibly sprint. I like the jump height but if it changes, it would also be a slight increase like 110% For beatdowns, I hope they bring it to a 3 kill beatdown, which I think is 75%. Because of the no bleed through damage, it will always take two beatdowns to kill, no matter how much shields the other player has. With that, theres more of an incentive to land shots before you beatdown or it will take 3 whips to kill (they would need half or less then half shields for a 2 hit kill). Theres no need to increase damage resistance and weapons damage so those will probably be left alone. Shields recharge rate may be decreased depending on how fast the shields recharge. The most important thing is that EVERYTHING needs to be tested extensively. I hope they don't just think that since its new, it won't work and just ignore it. If they spend a lot of time testing, then they could get some really good settings and really good maps to make a great competitive game.
If you've got an uninformed opinion about how MLG takes all the fun out of Halo, don't bother posting please. Wall of text inc. Sorry. TL;DR version is that we should start with default and tweak from there instead of starting with a completely altered game. As far as I'm concerned, the only responsible thing to do with Reach is to start with the default game and tweak from there. V1 settings ought to be DMR/(Magnum or AR) starts, radar disabled, and maps selected from the disk using a bit of common sense. Despite what seems to me the only smart thing to do, there are a ton of people insisting that we need to do drastic things immediately. All/most AAs removed, 120% speed (even if it costs us sprint and evade), damage settings for a 4sk DMR (even if it costs us many other potentially good weapons from the sandbox), forging remakes of H1/H2 maps for the circuit as fast as possible, and using 120% speed along with evade even though it makes you evade insane distances. Just about none of these ideas strike me as good ones, but obviously I haven't played the game. Most things suggested there break multiple other things, and using 120% speed along with evade is, well, insane. Fragtality has multiple youtube videos up of those settings, and only the 1v1 video makes the setting look good. Evading at that speed is broken on default sized maps, and I don't think MLG as an organization has the stomach for throwing out all of the default maps and moving to forged-only. Making the DMR a 4 shot kill has the obvious benefit of reducing kill times to make the game more exciting and letting individual players shine more without a teamshot, but the downsides are just too extreme. It makes frag grenades and the sniper reduce players to health so low a single DMR body shot kills them and it forces the removal of the AR, shotgun, Focus Rifle, and probably others. Worst of all, it makes the DMR kill in 5 body shots as well, reducing the incentive to go for the 4th headshot. Almost nobody is still clinging to that setting, but I hate it enough that I feel I have to rip it apart here as well. As for AAs, well, I like them, but only if they're presented as a choice. I don't want to play Slayer Pro where everyone has sprint and only sprint or evade and only evade, because I don't see the point. Just increase move speed if you want everyone to move faster. On the other hand, presenting the choice between sprint, jetpack, and hologram or something, that's a setup I like. Forcing players to make a decision on their death screen that could potentially make or break the game for them is very interesting strategically. I'm also not in favor of throwing away all of the AAs. If 120% speed makes sprint/evade broken, I don't think it should be used necessarily, and if evade is used at 120% speed nobody would bother with the jetpack even if it was available. As for maps, MLG has promised to be more open about the process this time. They've promised to let the community know what type of map they're looking for, and they have a community dedicated staff member now to sort through the maps rather than KC doing it alone in his time between other tasks. In Halo 3 they told the community they wanted an arena style Midship successor, and we got Amplified/Onslaught/Lockdown. And nothing else, ever. They've promised change, we'll see how they live up to that promise. For anyone interested, here are the Killa KC quotes that gives me confidence that he'll do the right thing in Reach.
I wasn't trying to say that MLG is the worst thing ever and takes the fun out of games. What I was saying that MLG took Halo 3 and then they changed nearly every aspect that they could. Not huge changes but enough to make me think "Hey, why do I have to play a version of the game which has had everything changed slightly in order to player at a Major League level?" But my post wasn't "ignorant". I could not have made the remarks I made without knowledge. Most of Halo 3 MLG maps have flat surfaces, regular or even geometry and clean aesthetics. This is so the players don't have bumpy movements, can accurately bounce grenades of corners without them hitting smalls nooks and so there is nothing to distract the player so that any action is the result of the players so you end up with result which has not been affected by any anomalies in the game to show the players skill. I just didn't think many of Reach's maps would have what MLG would want. Powerhouse, Boneyard and Spire are out because they have uneven ground. Zealot has varied gravity. Sword Base and Reflection should be OK and I haven't seen too much of the other maps. I was suggesting that seeing as they adjust everything else anyway, they might as make all their own maps as well. What I was saying, but everyone seems to have missed it and assumed I'm bashing MLG, was I would rather MLG used the game as the game developers made it. If Halo 3 Pros are no good at Reach then sucks to be them. Learn to play, don't change the game just enough so you don't need to learn too much but people who are good at default Reach do. When I said I'd rather have Major League Halo-Reach-Playing I meant that MLG should try use Reach as it is. Keep the loadouts, keep the armour abilities, keep the weapons. I want to see professionals playing the same game I am. I want to see them getting amazing kills, using clever tactics with their armour abilities, using different armour abilities together with their teams mates. I want to see them being professionals at the same game I'm playing And I don't want little kids screaming at me to 1v1 them on an MLG map using MLG rules when I was beating them in a game of standard, Halo 3 default, no extra rules, Slayer.
No, boneyard and spire are out because of how big they are. Powerhouse will probably be out because 1/4 of the map is never used unless you are playing 1 flag (the area you have to bring the flag to). It may be in though. For zealot, its possible to block that third level so it would make a great map. Halo 3 pros can be most people at default halo 3. I bet the same will be for reach. They don't change the game to not have to learn as much. They change it to add more skill and take out randomness. The point of MLG is to take as much randomness out and introduce more skill. The BR spread is random so they upped damage so it would be more consistant. Using default halo reach would go against what they do. And how do you know they won't use some of the armor abilities? The halo 3 1v1 maps on the forge forum are great. You not only have to have a good shot, but have to be able to time powerups and weapons. If you can't do that, you will lose. They promote map movement, something that guardian does not do well at all. Your post makes it think like you hate custom gametypes, because in a sense, that is all that MLG is. They make some gametypes and maps to go with them. Hows that different then half the forgers on this site that make gamtypes completely different then Halo's default settings?
You think the purpose of MLG's changes is to make things easier. That is ignorant. I don't care enough to do a point by point rebuttal of your whole post, but I will say that I hope MLG stays relatively close to default settings. I believe that MLG should exist as a natural evolution of standard matchmaking settings, not as a functionally different game. Evolution means change though, and there are certain things, the most obvious being radar, that just plain have to be changed to make the game better competitively.
I would except a very basic slightly modified settings so it wont stand out to much which is disappointing. I just wanna see how the pros compare to average players like in the MLG playlist if average players getting Onyx ranks and the MLG Pros getting like bronze
Handy, because Arena in the beta featured very interesting gametypes in this sense. Slayer Pro was no motion trackers (only reinforcing Ladnil's point about that in a competitive light imo), and if anything was closer to H3 MLG's approach than what Ladnil and others are currently suggesting in a default basis with tweaks applied from there (sprint only, DMR starts). When Bungie are making their own gametypes more slimmed down and 'traditional' MLG styled than even exponents of MLG are suggesting for Reach, you have to ask yourself how much these questions of MLG being 'simplified' from the default game are true at all. But just for reference, the pro's who played the beta destroyed in Arena, Snip3down was top 1% Onyx within a day or two of Arena coming out for example. You might also want to check out Strongside's video commentary of him playing the Beta. I notice that a common assumption is this: people think that, because they are good on default settings but don't play so well in MLG settings which they are not used to, the opposite must be true for pros and MLG fanatics. If you have ever watched pros play on default settings and exploit the hell out of the things they have which MLG don't, because they know exactly how to use them and how powerful they can be, you'd understand that this is not the case. It's like going up to a pro footballer (I'm talking about soccer if you're American) and saying 'sure you're really good in terms of playing in the premiership, but if you came to my local amateur 5 a side, open to all comers day, you'd get destroyed'. Somehow I suspect that wouldn't turn out to be the case. MLG is not simplified for the sake of making it easier, and someone who plays the game that much knows the mechanic inside out. When they get their hands on something which gives high damage reward for less inherent skill if you throw in some smarts with how to use it, you'll find they destroy with it. It's very common to mistake pros with people that try to act like them, then call you out because you used an AR (when actually what probably happened was that they could and should have used one in a given situation too, but were too wedded to their precious BR over actually deciding the best method to win). This attitude doesn't fare any better on the Pro Circuit than it does in default MM, if a pro goes in with an attitude of pomposity over doing what it logically takes to win, they will not succeed. If people who make these 'fish out of water' assertions played an actual pro on default settings, they'd quickly find these things like AR's and Shotguns, which they assume the pro doesn't know how to use, exploited the hell out of and used to greater effect than they themselves could use them. I'd also like to take this opportunity to address something that is rather relevant to people discussing their experiences of MLG gametypes compared to default ones, and sometimes even suggesting changes based on these experiences. The MLG playlist =/= MLG. MLG is LAN, teams vs teams, essentially events and that's it. The MLG playlists serves only as an opportunity for these gametypes to be played in a more accessible format, and decisions as to how MLG variants function and are designed should not, and will not, ever be based on playlist experiences. These gametypes are designed for the pro and amateur circuits, then copied over in to the playlist. When people talk in terms of 'I had x experiences in the playlist, and thus I think MLG should approach their gametypes in y and z ways', they are coming at it from completely the wrong way round, and effectively failing to understand what MLG actually is, only taking account of the bit they see: the playlist. Without putting too fine a point on it, these gametypes are not designed for your purposes, and what you think of them in terms of your playlist experiences is basically irrelevant. Any and all arguments about how they play should be made based on how they will play out in their intended purpose; events (and to an extent, stuff like Gamebattles, though even that is sketchy in terms of actually designing the variants for this purpose). That's not to say that changes in approach cannot be proposed, just look at what Ladnil and others are suggesting in contrast to the obvious 'sprint/dmr only' attitude that's being thrown around by some on the MLG forums, just clarifying how you should approach the purpose and therefore nature of MLG variants.
I think it should be like this: 100% damage resistance 120% attack power 110% speed 120% jump height 75% shield regeneration And there should be load outs something like this: Scout: dmr, 2 frags, sprint Rusher: nr, 2 frags, armor lock Medic: dmr, 0 frags, drop shield Grenadier: nr, 2 frags, 2 plasma
@bolded: 125% damage/110 resistance produces a 4 shot DMR kill so I understand that. 120/0 would do the same thing but break more other things. And the 4 shot DMR headshot kill has the side effect of making a 5 body shot kill and making the sniper and frag grenades kill in a single body shot if the victim is damaged at all. The only viable option for MLG is 100% damage settings, it's unavoidable. Also, why armor lock and drop shield but no hologram or jetpack? Great post to wake up to. People really do have this misconception that kids with MLG in their gamertags who yell and cry about ARs rather than pro BRs are the MLG pros, when really they're just tryhards.
As a forger and just an overall fan boy <3, im always down to try new things, maps, gametypes, etc. but in MLG settings, there SHOULD NOT be amour lock. Reason why; and this is totally fictional and is meant for some lulz 49-49 TS on Asylum your about to kill some one and they go into amour lock. you get sniped for the loss. your team then proceeds to push you out of your chair and gang stomps you. your coach rapes you. you get back to your hotel room and see your team. they gang stomp you again, and again, and again. your coach rapes you some more and they leave you with the hotel room bill. thanks amour lock.
YouTube - Halo: Reach Beta - Commentary - Strongside "..kill my teammate, get the double kill' I ove this video Also, nice wall of text pegasi, you should be a journo
Yeah, you're right. I didn't realize that. Why, I think it's better with out jet packs, but i didn't remember hologram(shame on me). Hologram would be more skilled than armor lock, so it would be better to MLG.
i would like to see only evade and sprint personally, but im willing to see how it would play with the other AA's