I don't think that's true all the time, but as soon as it's between high level teams in a game that matters then you're right, it just slows right down and becomes a seriously dull stalemate, might as well be 1v1 tbh.
High level teams in all games are like that, it is the nature of the map designs I guess, but I don't see much changing in that light. A time based TS would work wonders, because teams would have to be consistent. Maybe have a "mercy" rule, like if a team is 30 kills ahead with 5 minutes to go, end it. We now have enough viable gametypes I think we could replace TS no problem(Stockpile, Ball, Hill CTF, and possibly Bomb again; more options means maybe even land grab)
Stockpile NEEDS to be picked up by MLG tbh, I can see so many clutch plays and gripping games to watch coming out of it. Multiple things to focus on at once, the choice of whether to defend your stockpile when the timer is nearing a score, or try to chuck a couple of the opponent's flags out of theirs. I'm gonna be really disappointed if MLG don't at least give it some serious consideration. I'd hazard a guess that the Sanctuary remake would play it very well. But I do wonder how likely your suggestion of removing TS altogether is, you only have to glance at the forums to see how many people think that it's the be all and end all of competitive play. They're clearly wrong, but dropping TS altogether would be a massive move against popular opinion by MLG, and I can even see a good number of high level pros having serious objections to it. Not saying that's reason enough to decide against dropping or even changing it, but you can see how it'd make it much less likely to happen.
Stockpile will be sick, and I think half of the Reach discussion thread on MLG will find KC and burn down his house if he doesn't give it a serious testing. As for the community. MLG needs to realize most of the playlist champions know nothing about what makes a game competitive, MLG needs to establish a full testing team, not of the pros playing for money, these people(like all MLG staff), wouldn't be allowed to compete at an event. Then find out what works at ALL levels, not just when they play, have them watch the VoD, find what is boring to watch, and even boring to play. Changes need to be made by what is best for the "sport"(for want of a better word), not what is popular.
Good to hear Oh I agree completely, I'm just talking in terms of actual chances of it happening. And btw, as I fought this point tooth and nail in the shoutbox earlier, MLG is a sport. Tricky point, I know, but I'm 100% confident on my standpoint on this one (or, at the very least, if competitive gaming isn't a sport then neither is motorsport). But I'm off to bed now, so that discussion will have to wait until tomorrow .
A distinction needs to be made between the pros testing maps and the pros making decisions about what they'll play in tournaments. Testing is fine, and it's actually a good idea to have the best of the best play the settings to see how it plays out. Having them also make the decisions is absolutely not fine. Stockpile has such huge potential. I can't wait to play it on symmetrical maps.
I consider it an E-sport, but I think the difference is the fleeting thing of games. Athletes in "real" sports work their entire life to get where they are, practicing all hours they can. In gaming, not only do titles change every few years, but if you put any kind of effort into it you will be instantly classified as a "nerd". @Ladnil, That is true, pros should be the ones testing, but should have absolutely no say in what stays and goes.
TS could be faster paced if spawns weren't limited to one base. That's great for objective. I somewhat agree with the philosophy that if your team takes map control they keep it, but some maps are hard to break and others are easy.
I don't understand this at all. The pace of the game is improved if anything by the spawns being restricted to one base. That way, if one of the teams is pushing, the other is restricted to spawning nearby instead of clear across the map every time. If you were referring to the Pit problem with teams staying on their own side and dragging the game to a halt, that problem would not be helped in the least by being able to spawn anywhere.
I was referring to Narrows. If you play team slayer on Narrows, it is impossible to retain map control because you can't predict the spawns and as soon as you kill them from one direction another enemy is on you from another. It's a stupid way of making spawns, but if you guys want fast paced gameplay then that's kinda what you gotta do. I disagree about Tak's suggestion. It doesn't address the core issue of TS. It isn't about the time limit or the amount of kills. It's about who has control of power weapons and map control. Honestly, the only way to make a fast paced game happen is how the players play it.
I'm not talking about MLG spawns, I'm referring to Bungie spawns on Narrows. Teams can pretty much spawn anywhere.
People slow down the game because of the kill limit, a team plays quick to get control of power weapons, and then with a lead is fine trading kills to maintain the lead. If the other team didn't have to worry about that 50 kills, and instead just focused on making a comeback, the game would be much faster paced, and less about waiting for the next (painfully long) power weapon respawn. This is why FFA switched to infinite kills, people wouldn't be guaranteed a win for being the first to P2. On spawns, I really, really hate how simple it is to predict spawns in MLG now. A spawn trap in any other game is a strategic set-up that is difficult and risky to pull off. Now it is "stand in a power position by yourself and move side to side, oh, and just in case you **** up you have some cover too".
I don't think anyone in to MLG wants fast paced gameplay enough to give up any semblance of competitive reward in attaining map control, default Narrows ftl imo, even outside of MLG considerations. Also, I don't really see your point focusing on Narrows as a specific example. If anything, Narrows is one of the better TS maps in this regard since it's the one where it's least beneficial to play passive and stay in your base. The other team will simply bowl over, grab the top middle control you so nicely presented them with and proceed to spawn rape you on the exact basis you're suggesting they remove. I dun get it. If you weren't forced to spawn in the same base again, it'd be easier to hang back in general as you'd know you were guaranteed a safe (or at least safer) spawn after one death, thus slowing the game even further.
Assuming this would come from having certainty in where you would be placed, also in accordance to where enemies are placed too? But then again when your playing with no motion sensors, sometimes a random placement seems safer than being somewhere the enemy would presume.
Well based on the example of default Narrows, yes, since you'd be able to bank on spawning at the opposite base (or in that general area, not too close to top mid where it's assumed the enemies are holding at least in part) from the one you just died at. No placement is random, and they can presume all they like, it's still harder to keep switching between bases rather than to keep someone trapped in a base. That's kinda my point tbh, the (closer to) random placement rewards the team being kept on spawn, which is counter intuitive. It punishes map dominance more than the current set up. Also the no motion sensors is almost a moot point, since it's there only to increase the necessity of team work and callouts. Teams work on this basis and still know where the enemies are through communication etc, and if they don't then it's rewarding said enemy for being sneaky etc. Only in the playlist and with lower skilled players/randoms does the no motion trackers thing actually have that big of an effect since it isn't offset by the communication which is assumed upon for actual MLG competition (and MLG gametype/map decisions should NEVER be made with the playlist in mind, it misses the point completely).
You misunderstood me. If you play Narrows in Team Slayer, teams can spawn in either base. So after the initial rush, if you control top mid, the enemy team can spawn in your base. It happens often, so in the case of Team Slayer on Narrows, it's beneficial to stay in your base if you have the lead as it's the only guarantee to not have people shooting you in the back. MLG Narrows, map control works because spawns are consistent to a fault. (It's terrible getting sniped off your spawn)
But if they push on you, or you use dev's guide thing, as the deaths stack up in the spawn area it's just going to switch you to somewhere else. By sitting back you just let them do to you what you would to do them. Right?