This is very well written. To someone who does not understand map designing this would be very helpful. I know most of this material however, but I lack one of the more important qualities, vision. Thank you guys though. It's a great guide.
This guide is not intended to be some directive force in designing map. It's supposed to encourage an open thought process and understanding, which is why it's left vague. Also I don't consider designing a MLG map to be on the same level as designing a competitive map. In MLG the player base is at a highly skilled level so you're granted more leeway than that of a competitive map, which has to be designed for all skill sets and weapon sets. Not only that but our guides are intended to produce unique varieties of maps, instead of just knock offs of already made maps more suited for MLG style of gameplay. As MLG tends to encourage bad map design elements, such as spawn trapping, longer lines of sight, and the ability to place shots on the opponent from nearly anywhere on the map; I don't think it's necessary, or even advisable, to combine the two design theories. That's not to say one is better than the other, they're just uniquely different and an MLG design theory is best left to the MLG forums.
If you don't want to edit the guide it's fine. But let me clear some things up. 1. It is best for the "knowledge" guide to be as specific as possible. You do not want to leave any ambiguity about what is bad for maps. It is understandable if the creativity guide is a bit vague but the knowledge guide should have as much information as possible. 2. MLG and competitive maps as synonomous. The only difference between the two should be the weapon set. MLG maps are designed in the same way as regular maps, if anything, MLG maps are design more towards gameplay. It is biased, although widely believed, to thing that Onslaught is the ideal MLG style for maps. If you look at all the map pack maps, any of them could have been published as normal maps. MLG maps do not focus on large LoS or spawn trapping. Good 4v4 maps work well with both styles of play, bungie's maps are evidence of this. As a result, that source works with MLG and regular play styles.
I disagree. I feel that, as not a professional map designer, we don't have the right to say that this is what that is, and even if I was, that it would still limit it. What we're trying to do here is give people a start to thinking out the knowledge part of map design, and get their own viewpoints and ideas. I don't want to make it too specific, as therefore it limits their viewpoints to whatever I want. Ideally, I'd do what I was doing before, which was on Xbox Live, giving almost entirely hypothetical questions (What if ____?) to people. The point isn't to tell them why things are how they are or exactly what everything is and what you should be doing...I don't want a gazillion clones of a my own thinking process. Anyway, this is our attempt at that kind of result. I could definitely write more specific, but I don't want people to be thinking whatever I think. Originally, the designing your map part showed my MLG map, Requiem. While I love MLG settings and MLG maps, I don't think it's what we need right here. The difference isn't just in weapon sets; that much is obvious. And though spawn trapping and longer lines of sight aren't what makes MLG (which is where I disagree with Mick's statements) map design what it is, a well-made MLG map does have those elements in general. I just don't think MLG fits right here. The focus of MLG is more on the order of a highly competitive environment with a somewhat limited scope compared to competitive maps. There's no way to deny that, and it's not a bad thing, personally I even prefer how it brings the game to an ultracompetitive level. However, I feel using MLG in this Forging 201, which is meant to be sending forgers on to the right direction mentally, would be a mistake. MLG is great, and I'd even go as far as to say "if you've got the competitive mindset down, then you should move on to MLG, because it's tougher to do properly". Disagree there, but again it's from two completely different standpoints. Judging from what you'll get in matchmaking, I think Guardian was designed as a Team Slayer map and turns out to be excellent for Ball. A "base" doesn't necessarily need to be some kind of fortress, I use the word "base" as major spawn and interest areas. People flock to gold and sniper towers, and I consider them the major "bases". The Pit example I can agree with, seems like it was designed for flag (which it plays brilliantly).
This is Mickraider and your guide anyway. It is completely up to you what to do with your guide. While I disagree, this will be my last post on the subject. Good maps should work with both styles of play. Good bungie maps should be evidence of this. Some bungie maps require only a change of weapon set. Also, a more specific guide would guide forgers away things they want to avoid like overpower LoS, Tedious Jump-ups that hurt continuity, and spawntrapping. MLG does require a deeper understanding, and simple maps like Onslaught are a bad example of that. You should understand that I never brought up MLG in the first place, I just thought you should integrate quotes from other guides to a much broader perspective about map design. I just gave a good source, it was really up to you guys to pick and choose what applies to the knowledge guide and fits well. Most of that guide does not necessary scream MLG. You should read it, it might help you for the future articles. It's my go to guide for competitive maps. You could even include quotes from Xforgery guides or anything else (while citing them of course). I just wanted to help the guide. What I meant was that you should base your spawns around the main objective gametype. Orient them for that gametype, slayer spawns will usually follow. At least that's how I do it anyway. I personally don't like using that word base myself. There are areas of high traffic, and areas of low traffic. The word base only really has use in CTF, Bomb, or maps with sided spawns.
Hey, fellas, great job on the writeup. It's a nice guide and really encourages some deeper thought-processes in your design without restricting you to a single school of thought. This will serve us well as we move towards Reach. And hopefully Reach's sweet Forge mode. Quotes = totally cliche, though.
Amazing write up guys i am going to use many of these tips in the map im creating at the moment. Also congratz on the bungie forum feature. I can't wait to see the rest of the series. Keep up the good work
Woah this is amazing! I'm really glad to see a new addition to the Forge 201. Only problem is that I wish I could link directly to a certain section for purposes of explaining these concepts to people. This must have taken ages to write.
Hey Guys great Read im already planning my next map using some of these tips so far...well atm im just drawing it out on paper (which ive never done) but im deffinatly coming back here to read up some more as my map goes through its stages of creation etcetc tonnes of helpfull bits and whatnot top notch as they say (y)
Thanks for the feedback guys. Part 2, Map Design - Vision, will hopefully be ready to go in 2-3 weeks. This part heavily focuses on things like visualizing your ideas, sketches, Sketchup (including a short Sketchup tutorial), bringing your map to the actual game, things like that. At the same time, I'm trying to work up some kind of machinimas so that people can watch some of the stuff in the writeups, for those who are better with videos than with pictures and words. That may be a while in the future, but should let us do more specialized stuff, like a whole section on proper spawn placement, stuff like that.
It's interesting how a flow of a map and incorrectly placed weapons can destroy the flavor as well as make it wonderful. But getting flow, weapons, spawns, and objectives is INCREDIBLY difficult. I really like the maps coming out of Forge Hub and that is why I joined. Interestingly enough Aerocrest is one of my favorite maps because of artistic design and well placed weapons. Even though it is a small map it flows together well and has multiple points that control portions of the map but not all. BTW Insane thank you for posting this, next time I think of creating a map I will make sure these are on my checklist! -Tomo Stryker P.S. Sorry if it sounded more of an infomercial on that particular map