It does. You stated yourself that we have to choose between provided choices and possibilities in our decisions. Love has to be given freely. Else, it isn't really love. It's not involuntary... If our only choice was to love God, our brains literally could not conceive the reality of not loving him, then how is this a gift? We just be little robots running around without any choice whatsoever in where put our love. Murder is a more severe sin than a lot of them. Duh.... Blasphemy is rejection of God. It's not really a valid point of debate for the whole "Sin weighing is jacked up!" argument since it is repentable (if you go to him, your rejection no longer stands). Blasphemy: The people who saw Jesus and accused him of being of the devil or a demon committed Blasphemy. There is another type which is forgivable, "...use God's name in vain." He isn't clueless...he's God... "Clueless God" is an oxymoron isn't it? Anyway... Let me explain this very simply. God is good. God is God. God is perfect. God is all good and none are good without him. God is the only good. None can be good without him. There are TWO things in existence (outside our world), God, and not God. God is good, and the only other choice is not God. Not God is the bad choice. Anything below God's rules is evil. God's rules are the line. On one side is God, and on the other is evil, which, simply, is the absence of God. ("not God" is not a person...) That line carries over to our world. The difference here is that, now that there is a physical universe, there are millions and millions of different ways to do the same thing: choose between God, and not God. Murder and lying are two ways to do that same thing. Say you are playing a sport, like soccer, but no matter how you foul, the penalty is the same. You choose: play by the rules, or below them. I could kick you, stab you, trip you, etc., the results might be different, but I did the same thing: I fouled. "how dare he say or even think it is appropriate to weigh my lies against the abuse of a child. How dare he be so cruel. " Man should not judge the ways of man, that's God's job. If he exists, then it's not your job to judge his ways, he knows what he is doing. So if man shouldn't judge man, what gives us the right to even think we can judge God? Destruction of what we created? Is it His responsibility to fix our mess? To clean up after us? No, and the fact that he is destroying it at all we should be thankful for. He set a time. When everyone has had their chance to decide their fate, he will come and finalize those decisions, and bring their consequences to the deciders. Like I said earlier, it's him, or not him. In order to make it so it isn't that way, he would have to create another equal to himself, just as Holy and loving for us to choose. Even then that wouldn't work because we are supposed to love ALL. Choosing not to love on of the two would still be below the rules. Why doesn't he alter the rules? He doesn't want us to be mindless robots without a choice in our actions. Right..I explained evil existing up there ^^. I don't see how the non existence of a square triangle is relevant though... Where does it say he shows all the qualities of love? If it says "the" it would be looking for specific things. However, post the verse and I'll rewrite my post if it makes you feel better. Did you just use urban dictionary to look up a biblical word? I believe this calls for "FAIL" in big red letters: FAIL Ahh, much better. When they let you out of the funny farm, good luck finding your magical Unicorn! No. "You will not be able to see the truth.." NC... I don't trust my gut, to be honest. My gut changes it's mind too easily. I wasn't raised Christian. I wasn't spoon-fed the Bible. I decided to become a Christian BECAUSE it seemed logical given the information around me, not in spite of it. ----------------------- Because I know someone will quote my above statement saying "None can be good without him" and say they can do good things while they are not a Christian. Hear this: God made you, you have the capacity for good. No one said otherwise.
Did you just blatantly ignore the obvious joke intended by his post when giving you this link? You misspelled righteous, and he jokingly pointed it out. Fail on your part sorrily. The unicorn is a common analogy used with debating the existence of god, especially in this topic. Once again, failure to understand peoples' conception has landed you in the boat of failure.
(1) Good luck finding your magical man in the sky, too! (2) Then you have found some way to rationalize it for yourself. What logical reasoning do you have to believe in god? I'm not talking about any kind of emotional response like many of the things you have said previously, "gaps" that you say can only be filled by god, events of probability ('miracles') or anything else of the sort. I'm talking about actual, direct, straightforward reasoning that leads you to the conclusion of the Christian god.
lol you say there's no proof, but then you believe this bullshit about political control that you just pulled out of your ass, or copied from someone who pulled out of their ass. what a hypocrite. On a similar note: You're wrong. just a few examples: Crusades-very rough, 1.5 to 9 million vs. WW1- 15 million plus if you want to count the Spanish flu there's no competition at all. WTC terrorist attack-2,995 vs. Hiroshima- 70,000–80,000 instantly and 90,000 to 140,000 by the end of 1945 Spoiler 1 This does nothing to disprove the existence of God. It takes the existence of God as one of the givens. God would have to exist in order for his action or inaction to prove anything. Spoiler 2 You can't use arbitrary definitions like that. Take this example, Some people think that love is the want reproduction, therefore saying God is love means he wants to reproduce with you. obviously this is not the message John was trying to convey. or you could have used a point like: I say in order to love you have to be a baby seal. God is not a baby seal. Is God love? If you were trying to reference the bible I think you mean 7 days, 40 days is the Flood among others.
On a similar note: You're wrong. just a few examples: Crusades-very rough, 1.5 to 9 million vs. WW1- 15 million plus if you want to count the Spanish flu there's no competition at all. WTC terrorist attack-2,995 vs. Hiroshima- 70,000–80,000 instantly and 90,000 to 140,000 by the end of 1945 1st of all cocksmoker the point was to show you how many people actually died in "Gods" name.
Listen, Theists don't group together in this debate like Atheists do. Atheism is one division, lacking belief in God, but if you are a Theist, you believe in God; which God a theist believes in differs. Don't group me with the Catholics, Muslims, Japanese communism or anything else. Group me with the Biblical, non-pentecostal protestants. Ok? Group Diablo or whoever you were insulting with whatever group he claims he is part of. Those people didn't die in the name of my God. Maybe they even thought they were, but my God doesn't encourage ruthless slaughter.
How many things wrong here? Well first of all you say "1st of all" and only have one point. Second, you said "i mean more people have been killed in the name of God then anyother reason" and I was informing you that you were wrong. We all know that people have been killed for religion, that's a big DUH. And third since I've never heard it put like that before I just can't resist a yo mama joke.--You can smoke cocks? Great now yo mama can quit cigarettes.Focus on the 2nd point though it was the most important. How rude! I thought everyone was welcome in the all-embracing arms of God's love. Oh well, I guess just not those people over there. Also I was pointing out he was wrong, not encouraging killing people in the name of God. Why would a pacifist do that? Question: Are these people who are theists but don't believe the same as you o going to hell(ex. Catholics)?
Nature's Evil You can try to explain away the fact that god allows evil by blaming evil's existence solely on humans, except human evil is not the only kind of evil in the universe. Natural evil can be just as ruthless and deadly. What do you say about the fact that young children get Leukemia, or that entire cities are wiped out in hurricanes killing thousands? What about volcanoes, floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, fires, and shark attacks? What about that evil? Are you going to try and blame human beings and their sins for the deaths of millions of innocent people due to disease and natural disaster? Or did they somehow deserve it because they sinned? Why would a caring creator allow all of that evil if he is willing and able to help? Sidenote: God Bans Front Hugs. They are the devil's work. 3:35 - "Jesus never hugged nobody like that!" YouTube- Christian Side Hug
Thats what you think but id like you to prove it :] . Even the idea of peace is going to cause fights because everyone has a different idea of peace so "ruthless sluaghter" will happen wether you believe in it or not. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't change the fact that it will be. If I shoot someone in the face with a shotgun no matter how much they don't believe it will kill them will save them. Belief will not change facts ever. PS that video above me better be a joke hahah those wiggers have to seriously think about how retarded their "side hug " is lol.
That video was....I'm ashamed of these people.... Second... The Bible tells us that God put a curse on the earth as a punishment to Adam's sin, that all his descendants and himself would live on the cursed earth of violent nature and disease. Isn't that wonderful? Yeh, it's temporary though, kind of depressing and senseless when read by itself, but so every other excerpt from any other speech or story or record.
Prosper, wouldn't you think religious knowledge would be something we were born with if there was a god? Ya know, like one of your instincts? Because if a baby was abandoned in the forest or something and trained himself to survive, he'd die without knowing anything about modern religion.
@Diablo - Really? Do you honestly want a response? Because after Prosper I'm about done with people not reading and not understanding. Do you honestly think that was even a mildly appropriate response to my arguments? How could you possibly think, after fully reading and understand my second argument, that I thought the Bible didn't give a clear and concise definition of love? No, we're not talking about choice bub. We're not talking about our choice to love or not love. What we are talking about is whether or not god is love, exudes the quality of love or is the source of love. You have failed to answer my post to any satisfactory level even after I gave you a second chance to do so. You said no sin was worse than any other. Yet here you are claiming the opposite. Perchance, do you remember saying this, "sin is sin, no variation of severity"? The Bible would beg to differ and calls it the one unforgivable sin. This isn't atheist logic, this is your HOLY, INFALLIBLE text. You missed the pathotic argument but as a response to what little you did seem to understand: It isn't. Well seeing as its been stated previously that god demands faith in place of evidence and since it is evident there is no tangible (and non-anecdotal) evidence for god then we must assume that the only reason you know these things is because the bible says so. So, I've raised an issue on the Bible's accuracy, questioning whether or not it is infallible. If you can defend the bible from that argument then I would have reason to respond to this point. So please stop wasting my time and respond to the original argument presented instead of these tangents. But one is more severe. If you slide tackle me you get a red card. If you stab me a cop comes and takes you away. Two varying degrees of action are acted upon accordingly to their degree of severity. I might as well trespass and get the death penalty or murder someone and get a speed ticket (this, by your logic). Who will judge the ways of man? We judge each other all the time and it is how we issue justice and defend peace and defend our nation. I have the right to judge god even if he exists because he gave me the capacity to. But most likely I'm judging something which could be considered on equal grounds with fairies and Santa. The fact that he did not destroy evil immediately if proof enough that the argument is true and valid. I would like to contend the argument that man created evil with my blog entry. If you dare read it that is... That is literally a pointless argument. It does nothing. Well obviously he does because there is no sin in heaven. Just make evil a choice people just can't make. You can be an atheist and not evil. Just get rid of murder and rape and war. Just say that those options are not possible and be done with them. Allow the people to choose to believe or not but don't make them suffer while they decide. You would understand if you understood the argument which it is blatantly obvious you didn't. You are not free to choose between square circles and triangles. Square circles are just not something you can choose. If that is not a negation of free will then why would the abolition of evil be? "GOD IS LOVE." Read your Bible. No, I'm sorry, just read my post. I have the bible quote but you obviously didn't give two shits to read it before mouthing your head off. You're a ninny.
I think people have a misguided sense of sin and it's consequences. Different sins have different consequences which can vary from physical to emotional pain. They are viewed equally in the eyes of God, because God loves us all equally. If sin was weighed differently in the eyes of God in terms of love, then people could objectively say God loves you more than me. Forgive me for being brief, I just jumped in after skimming some posts. Dreadfully tired and need to study more.
I was responding to your first argument; when you asked why he had to give us the choice to sin at all. NOT your second one, if you just got it mixed up, I understand, if you were just trying to be a jackass, you succeeded. No....I said in the eyes of God no sin is more sever than another. In the physical world one sin may have a different effect than another, some more severe than others. I do remember that, do you remember the other half of my point that quote was extracted from? I never said it wasn't an unforgivable sin. What's your point? "this is your HOLY, INFALLIBLE text." why thank you. That wasn't a debate point... "god demands faith in place of evidence" <<< Error "God offered you a pardon, Faith." << Notice the capital "G" and correction of vocabulary, as well as the removal of the incorrectly suggesting and personal insult: "in place of evidence" Yeh..no evidence...suuuuurrrreeee. Then you'll ask "Ok, Mr.Sarcastic pants, show us some". I'll say "Show me a logical explanation (besides lack of evidence) for God's lack of existence, and I'll show physical proof he does." I'm really starting hate being judged for my beliefs, and the worst of it comes from atheists. I won't generalize, I'm ranting on Rabid and Nitrous. You compare God to some magical pony. Maybe it makes sense to you, but to me you're just making yourself look stupid and ignorant. On your blog, which I read, Nitrous, you said "as long as there is a single Creationist Nitrous will be there to make fun of of them" (off memory). That seems to be fulfilled by your seemingly-logical posts in this thread. An example of which being the two arguments you presented, neither of which debated the existence of God, but his personality. No, the Bible's record is not the only reason I believe in God, I believe in him because I know he's there, and it just doesn't compute with my brain not to (anymore). Once you believe in God you see things differently. Maybe your magical pony friends understand your comparisons, but to the majority of people, you're making fools out of yourselves. You gave me two arguments, and this is the second time you have mixed up my responses. Say you're in math class. The teacher says "anyone who doesn't do their homework will be punished." Ok, that seems fair. She says this at the beginning of the year. At the end, she looks to see who missed a homework assignment. When she does she can punish the people who didn't do it all the same as people who missed it once, or those who missed a 3 problem sheet with those who missed a whole packet. You were warned, once you enter her territory whatever does is justice. Year start: Birth Year end: Death Teacher: God Missing HW: Sin Understand the analogy? Not by my logic. My logic says if you were warned and cross the rules, (rules being the variable) you can be punished (punishment being constant, not depending on rule broken or how many). God. =) Yeh, we punish crimes, but were not judging holiness. This is human justice, which (on a side note: can somtimes be corrupt) is different from Holy justice (final judgement). You were also given the ability to murder, does that justify it? Here we go again with Santa...that doesn't even deserve a response, it deserves a facepalm...but I'll let it slide. What? What in the...What? That makes about as much sense as a flying pink gorilla with a lollipop taking a crap on a magnetic toilet. Does the fact that your mother didn't immediately clean up the mess in your room when you were little make her evil? Hmm? I believe you now need to edit your signature. It's an argument, I was correcting your missunderstanding. This isn't even relative to the thread...or acknowledging the time a I spent writing..which you seem to have glanced over, if that. God is the universe (not literally). He is the source of happiness and love and etc.. To be completely away from him, well there's a word for that, it's called Hell: cut off from God completely. On earth he still has remnants of Eden. If you wanna go there, fine by me, but don't expect to live in a paradise (which you described) he (hypothetically) created without acknowledging he exists. It isn't because we already (as Christians) made the choice to pursue Holiness, (which isn't God-level in any way), he's just helping us in the end. For those who decided to curse him throughout their lives...not fun. but they still have their free will., (so will we, just not temptation). Jesus is a door. Reqad my Bible and read your post, the latter wasn't anything in comparison. I meant the verse, an to avoid confusion, I'm asking for the quote in MLA format. ..and you're jackass! Feel the love... Are you kidding me?! Why do you think this thread is so popular?! Also, hypotheticals are not fair game...
It's not hypothetical. Also, I'm still waiting for you to respond to my previous post. It should be easy, given how confident you are in your beliefs..
The specific situation was, and, in response, I say I believe in the age accountability (not set, but varying according to when a person, if ever, reaches the ability to choose their path). Tell me if I need to explain that, or if I need to provide Biblical evidence to suffice your criticism, even though it's not the point of this thread. What was your earlier post? You have a lot of them. I'd also like to remind you peoples that this isn't the "Poke the Creationists" thread, or the "Criticize Christianity" thread, it's the "Debate God's Existence" thread. No specific religion, just God.
Although I think Prosper already wasted his time trying... you can't prove a negative. Dude...wow just wow...Really? He said the quote in his first post. FULL Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. and he is saying that in order for God to actually be love he must have the qualities of love. Example: a circle is a set of points equidistant from a specified point. Therefore if the object doesn't have this quality it is not a circle.
Huh? Who said my name? I knew THAT verse was quoted, but he said something equivalent to: "your Bible says God exudes (or some other funky word) the qualities of Love." I knew the Bible said he was love, but it never said he was an emotion. 0.0 You know happiness? You can feel happy, an emotion, and then there is happiness, which is the actuality or quintessence or source of that emotion? Maybe not a great example, but imagine (now speaking to Nitrous) that "happy" is the first verse in your spoiler, and "happiness" is replaceing "love" in the second. =) Wait...Diablo do you have a view on this? Mine have already been expressed, and you never respond to it, you only clarify Nitrous's stuff for me (second time). I respond with another quote...