Well we are the dominate species on this planet that is living. So Im going to state that off the back because this didn't happen from being vegan we became a powerful species by eating both plants and animals . Also im contributing by adding a sort of compile post of what I have read in this thread and agreed upon. So I put my argument in my own words which has already been put out there in the past but I didn't see any very good counter arguments other than "eating animals is wrong". The fact of the matter is that humans needed meat to evolve and we still need it today just as we need any other food group. With out it we would still be primitive and well monkeys[exaggeration but you know what I mean}. I think it tastes good ,you either think it tastes bad or that its wrong. I stand by the statement "if it tastes good eat it" and I honestly don't care about other animals "rights" when im hungry or trying to survive. If the world went into an apocalypse would you honestly not eat meat to survive? I will eat anything if it means survival and let the better species win , I will put my money on omnivores surviving longer than picky eaters in a limited food environment.
I think it's very discriminatory, that you can't eat animals, but you can eat plants or fish?(which are animals, actually.), are you implying plants don't have an equal right to live as animals? When I eat food, I eat it to stay alive, any other carnivorous animal would do the same to you. Also, many vegetarians eat fish. Fishes are animals. Many people don't realise that eating a fish is eating an animal.
I'm sorry, I didn't pay your first post much mind because it honestly pissed me off more than I like to admit. Particularly: That is ignorant, opinion or not. But it's cool, we can have a talk and I feel much better addressing your latest response than the previous one. You actually touch on a really interesting aspect. I'm not going to pick your post apart line-by-line but I do have a response. Mainly, it's not an issue of survival in the modern age. I guarantee that if it was, and I have played this scenario out in my mind because it has come up for me in a very real way before, I would have absolutely no reservations eating meat. I would tear that squirrel apart with my bear hands and depending on how hungry I was, I might just eat it raw. I ate meat for 27 years and I have a strong stomach, good digestion, etc. Now, it would probably taste weird as hell at first (it's been well over 2 years now) but I'd get what I need. You made a statement in your first post that by obtaining and eating meat, we are just mimicking what animals do naturally every day. Well, not if you get your meat form a grocery store or a restaurant. I don't and wouldn't hunt, but in a way, I find it to be more justifiable. It's still not necessary for survival in the modern age (in most of the world, including where we live) so it's not totally justifiable. Meat from grocery stores and restaurants comes from sources that in no way resemble anything that occurs in nature. The torment inflicted on animals by the factory farm industry reaches levels that make natural predation, and the generally shitty lives that animals naturally live, look pleasant. The present is not the past, if I lived in a different stage of history things would be different. As it is now, I have the luxury of choice. You also made some statements that are not true. Meat is not required for a fully healthy human diet. This my friend has been addressed already in this debate and I'm not going over it again. Do your own research. While you're at it, find a source for that statement you made that the human brain would not have developed as it did without meat, because I'd like to see it. I'm not saying it's not true, but that's an interesting theory. Finally, you expresses a general absence of empathy for animals. This puts us on more subjective grounds. Ethics is a great field, but in the end I can't hold anyone accountable for how they feel about moral issues, especially if they hold well thought-out beliefs and don't demonstrate gross levels of willed ignorance. This is why I don't hold any type of grudge against meat eaters, which makes up 99% of the people I know and love. What? Wow. First off, I don't eat fish. I don't eat any animals. Second off, Nobody thinks that fish are not animals. As has been touched upon already in this debate... line-drawing (between what a person will eat and what a person won't) is a personal, considered choice. It's not black and white and nobody would claim to be a pure vegetarian if they ate fish. But as I've said before, forget how a person would label himself, that is irrelevant. Thirdly, yes. Yes, I discriminate against plants. THIS is where the survival issue comes in, Sid.
No we don't, dude. That's one of the most ignorant comments I've read here, and I'm a dyed-in-the-wool meat eater (as if it matters). We need intelligence to evolve; period.
I just now noticed this thread and i am proud to say that i have never, ever eaten any sort of meat in my entire life. I find it wholly unnecessary to kill animals in order to feed myself. Also, evolution itself pretty much tells you flat out: you aren't a carnivore. Flat teeth for chewing vegetation, lack of claws or fangs or any sort of weapons, inability to run very fast etc etc etc. Also, do you see monkeys eating cows? I think not. On another note, the human digestive system is not fit for digesting meat. In other words, it sits in your digestive system, slowly starting to rot as your body slowly digests it over it. Not only bad, but nasty.
Oh yeah, Killing animals to feed yourself is evil! Killing plants (even more plants need to die for an equal amount of nutrition) to feed yourself is totally A-Ok!
You suck **** i dont think you realize the mass scale slaughter you put millions of LIVING CONSCIOUS ANIMALS through just to eat your goddamn meat which isnt even good for you. DONT YOU EVEN TRY TO ARGUE FOR EATING MEAT. on another side note, i only drink Goats Milk from a company that doesnt abuse their goats. EDIT: YouTube - Meet your Meat After watching this, i personally feel that mass human suicide is the best and most ethical option. As in, kill off the entire human race. I'm disgusted to be human.
Seeing the meet your meat video was sad. It's horrifying to say the least. I like animals. I remember when I was 13, I had gotten my hunting license. I sat in the tree stand, and saw a buck walk right beneath me. I put the gun up to my shoulder and just aimed at it for a few minutes. Then I let it walk away. I thought to myself, that thing probably enjoys living. Maybe I'll let it live for a day, a month, maybe a few years longer just by not pulling this trigger. Heck, I can go without some deer meat. When I got back to the house, I told my dad I didn't see anything. I haven't gone hunting since. I eat meat two or three times a week. It could be a topping on my pizza, or something with my noodles, or maybe I just went to McDonalds. I also drink milk. I don't think becoming a vegetarian, or stopping drinking milk is the best, or a good way at all to tackle these companies. In fact, I believe that it really won't make a difference at all. I don't want people to quote me on this and start flaming me. If you can show me how effective it is, please, post a quote from a slaughter house representative that says "the vegetarians are a huge profit loss". Show me what vegetarians have changed, simply by being vegetarians. Until then, I have no reason to believe that becoming one will solve anything. The only way we could ever get them to change the ways of killing the animals is through law. It's basically animal abuse, right? So make a law that sets standards for this ****. My ending quote- Eating animals is perfectly okay. I do not believe in god, so why would I think it's wrong? They're not conscious, and a lot of times we forget that they aren't human. However, I do think that it is inhumane to kill animals the way we are killing them. They feel pain.
*sigh* sorry. I have very strong moral values and idiocy such as his makes me angry beyond comprehension. I know what is right, i just dont have an appropriate way to delivering the message to all of those idiots out there who havent figured it out for themselves.
How is it propaganda if its filled with footage of the people actually doing these things and the companies that do these things. Truth isnt propaganda. You're just unwilling to accept it and so call it so.
Hari, look. Lets distinguish between the two. Killing animals. Right or wrong. Right. Torturing animals. Right or wrong. Wrong. There is nothing wrong with killing animals to live. It's how the world is. Sure it's sad that they are no longer with us, but dude, look, when they die, they won't remember living. If you believe in a heaven, then you could even say they are happy. Torturing animals is wrong because of the pain it brings. Any form of pain while killing animals I think is wrong. It doesn't hurt to get shot in the head. It doesn't hurt to have your head cut off. Those are the methods that should be used for killing.
They purposely found the worst possible factory animal farmers and turned it into a video, quite alot of companies do not factory-farm, and quite alot of factory farm companies don't have such harsh conditions. This is about eating animals, claiming that some companies factory farming is what eating meat is all about is propaganda. They also call almost all of the videos something along the lines of "the truth behind blahblahblah", this adds another layer of propaganda, the lies that: Most things meat eaters say are propaganda What they say isn't propaganda That that is how all companies are like That the meat eating community all factory farm (Main Point) That the majority don't believe their propaganda (of course they don't call it that) whereas the majority have already heard alot of propaganda and are convinced to believe it (similar to global warming) Sometimes those particular methods are quite inhumane when there are tiny mistakes, but I understand why you'd believe those methods, occasionally bullets will miss and hurt the animal more, and occasionally the bullets can ricochet off the skull and injure people, also cutting the head off isn't necessarily a quick process for thick skinned animals, I think the most humane version would be a poison that's quick and painless. Also, I believe that before these animals are killed, the owners should do anything they can to ease the pain, or even make that animal alot happier. (So it's a nicer way to die)
Whoa there. Humans don't need to kill animals to survive nor did evolution intend us to. We have no good reason to kill animals besides for our own pleasure in eating their dead corpses. Killing animals is not right and i'm not sure what basis you think that killing them is right. Its not really the meat itself that bothers me though. If they die of natural causes and were not contained/tortured in any way, go right ahead and eat that meat, its clean and not covered in the blood and pain of thousands. The very fact that these kind of conditions exist to produce what you eat every day should be enough to thoroughly disgust you and if you have any moral values whatsoever, you would make sure that the meat you eat is not created from the unending suffering and torture of another living being.
shure they found the worst farm but most farms are like that have you ever been to a real farm? its not a big red barn with chickens running around it is a big factory full of weird machines that do stuff you dont want to know about.
Well, I have to say something from experience. But before that, 1: I am not a Vegetarian 2: My family was(Aunt and Uncle) 3: I like it all Alright, so My Aunt and Uncle were Vegetarians. They raised ym cousin on that also. But one day, my aint read the "Veggie Meat" nutricional facts. It made MCDonalds look healthy!!! So, before that my cousin was getting sick kinda. She had never eaten meat before in her life until she was 7. When she tried meat she loved Chicken, and steak was iffy. She still eats alot of Veggies, and less meat. But now she is a healthy great young girl. My Stand. I think it's fine to be a Vegetarian. I dissaprove of the way meat is processed. I enjoy Chicken personaly. I eat Chicken in substitute for Steak, Ribs, and any other meat normally. Infact I eat chicken about 4 nights a weak, the other nights I either don't eat or I eat a Subway sub.(Excluding going out to eat) I consider my self leaned towards being a vegetarian, but I like CHicken Breast. I eat healthy foods, such as salad, bell-peppers, and more. I also cook my own food. This includes salsa, Shishkabob, Omelets, and anything I enjoy eating. I am a both ways eater but enjoy vegetables way more than meat. Also, DOWN WITH STEAK.