I like how South park depicted this scenario lol . Everyone goes to hell unless they are Mormon lol. My side of it is to live my life to its fullest and with out fear or sacrifice of one day a week lol.
I do not enjoy going to church. I risk going to hell because I do not believe what you believe? I could say the same about you, and in the end, it would be impossible to determine who is correct. I cannot all of a sudden believe in Christianity. Secondly, you are trying to scare us (Atheists) into believing what you believe, not unlike monarchs 1000 years ago. You have to worry about breaking rules while still having morals. I don't. I can have premarital sex. I can eat meat on Fridays during Lent. I can take god's name in vain. I can covet whatever the hell I want. And I am not afraid to do so, because I believe nothing will happen to me. This. There are hundreds perhaps thousands of religions.
At the same time, there are hundreds of religions, at least. Your odds of having picked the correct one aren't so much greater than ours.
2 different respnses: Response 1: I was just thinking about this yesterday night. In 2001, it was predicted that there are 10,000 distinct religions in the world. There is a 99.99% chance that you will go to some obscure religion's version of hell, or nowhere at all. That isn't even counting the number of denomination within all of those religions. Now, let's assume that atheism is counted as one of those 10,000. There could potentially be a god who rewards us for using our minds, and looking at the world rationally and attempting to understand the minutiae of the universe instead of just passing it off. That gives us an equal chance, 1 in 10,000, of going to some kind of heaven. Plus, we don't have to live lives of indoctrination and fact less belief. I would take that as a big plus. Response 2: You are forgetting that we don't believe in god. The chief argument isn't about risk/reward, it's about if there IS, or if there IS NOT. You can't say that we "risk" going to hell, when the entire point of our side of the debate is to say that there is no hell to risk going to. If anything, you are the only one who should be fearful of what will come after death. If you want to say that we risk going to hell, that means you must understand that you do, too. And since you believe there is a god, you have to understand that chances are you are not going to pick the right one, and suffer quiet a lot. How can you go on living, knowing that?
Response 1: So you would rather believe in a god you don't believe exists, to in actuality exist and save you? Do you realize how utterly crazy/contradictory that is? Response 2: You are forgetting something. I believe in one God and all the others are wrong. There is no probability of correct guessing here its very clear cut. There are no chances that I picked the wrong one, because God is right. I don't even see how you think that is a actual argument against me. It may solidify other atheists to your position but it will have no effect on a religious person, and those are the people you are debating with. I won't blame you though, as it seems common. Atheists tend to only see their side of things even when they claim they can see both. It may make sense to you that since there are a lot of choices you just shouldn't dip your feet in at all, but in reality there is no probability, since you are again applying probabilities to a god. I'm pretty sure we've been over this before, but just to reiterate. You can't apply statistics to a god, it just doesn't make sense. Yet, you keep trying. This makes you nonsensical. How can you go on living, knowing that?
You need to work on your clarity. He's talking about applying statistics to the religions of the world, not god. Those church-ey folk, they can't even give the brief illusion of open-mindedness. It doesn't apply. You idiot.
What's not to get? All he said was that RabidZelbrig is contradicting himself by saying that there might is a God who will accept an Atheist even though Athiests don't believe in Gods. He's saying that our chances of choosing the wrong Religion/God are huge, he is indeed applying statistics to God. Then what the hell is El Diablo doing, I have never seen him be to close-minded with all of his arguments, even at times I become judgmental at God, I am incredibly open-minded about Religion and anyone against it. All I here Athiest say is... "There is no God, end of story. I refuse to accept your awnsers because there is evidence against it even though it is a probability."
I was just surmising the idea presented by the other guy, if it doesn't make sense that would be A) my point and B) his problem not mine. He was comparing picking the wrong religion which in most cases would be picking the wrong god. Are you daft, man? You're condemning me because I am at this point solidified in my faith, without even considering the emotional upheaval I've had over this decision over the past few years. I've even debated both sides of this debate on this site, so what the **** are you talking about dude. Are you just reatarded? I just have a simple question. Why? What purpose does this statement serve? Do you just look for every instance you can seek in an insult, so that you sound like you actually know what you're talking about? because we all know the best way to debate is to insult the other guy so you look better... Actually it's more than that. I'm furious. Can you all ever stop insulting each other? What is the point of a debate if all it consists of is "You idiot." "No you're the idiot." "No you're the idiot." "No you're the idiot." ... This is simple lunacy. If you actually find this intellectually pleasing or fun in anyway, please get checked out. If you actually think this is a good way to present an argument, please go back to the school you must have dropped out of in the 3rd grade. Grow up. Also you may have wondered why many people are under the belief that atheists are bad people. Guess what, it's because of people like you. The ones who are so filled with bitterness that they have no idea what they are talking about, just like you. All you can see is the horribleness of religion and can't wait to insult a religious person and religion in general. In fact you probably laugh about it making jokes at the expense of the good caring people who are trying to perpetuate the real ideas of Christianity and in fact most religions. The people who help others out of the goodness of they're hearts. But boo hoo you had a bad experience with a religious person, or maybe not even that, you where just brought up that way by your parents. Why don't you instead of being a foul bitter person, be a nice caring person, and show those silly religious people up. You don't need religion to find morals? Why don't you walk the walk then? And before you start stringing out a list of how good you are just stop right now. I don't care what bullshit you're gonna give me, I've read your posts and you're despicable. So I don't give a **** if your such a great person in real life show it on here why don't you? please forgive the rant of the last paragraph if it seems incoherent it just kind of spilled out, but I think it should be said.
No, Atheists who refuse your answers aren't that close minded, at least, I know I'm not, and I know a lot of the Atheists on this site have said they aren't. However, when there is evidence to suggest there isn't a God and only faith and the possibility of his existence to say there is, then it isn't hard to see why Atheist's aren't going to be swayed easily.
Of course I don't. I'm looking from your perspective when I say that. If you choose to believe in a god, you cannot deny the possibility of the Atheist god (sounds very contradictory, but isn't if you understand what I'm saying) existing. Don't just say "You can't apply statistics to god!" It isn't an argument. You have to REFUTE what I say in order to stand your ground, not just say "NO IT'S NOT TRUE" and assume that you are right all of a sudden. Why, exactly, can't you apply statistics to religious belief? Did you read the two quotes that he posted? Regardless of what you believe, saying that there will never, ever be something is a very close minded statement. There is a chance that god exists. There is a chance that a ham sandwich will someday rule the world. There is a chance that broccoli is a figment of your imagination, and does not truly exist. If I ask you if the second two statements could ever be true, you will say "No." Why? Because they are ****ing ridiculous, unproven, and wholly illogical. The first statement is the same way, until you can prove it otherwise. Emotions mean nothing. Let me reiterate that. Nothing. Try going into a court and claiming that your significant other couldn't possibly have murdered that hobo, because your faith tells you so. What you want to believe doesn't matter.
Your mind is like water. When it is troubled it becomes unclear and hard to see but if you simply allow it to settle the answer becomes clear. My friend, Matthew 7:6 and Proverbs 3:5.
Umm yea it's really easy. There is only one god and that is God, looks like yours can't exist, sorry. We've been over this before so why would the details be reiterated when you're just using the same failed argument? you missed the point of the sentence. I'll make it clear. "without even considering the emotional upheaval I've had over this decision over the past few years." It's not like I woke up today and said to myself, "hmm..I think I'll be a Christian today." That's not how it works. If you really think that I've come to my conclusions overnight with no thought what-so-ever, then you're just showing your own short-sightedness. I doubt that anyone has come to a decision as grand as that pertaining to religion in the blink of an eye. I will admit that there are times when people have overwhelming religious experiences, but hose are special cuircumstances and its not like their religion can be just one big event continued throught out their life. At some point you gotta face facts. And when I faced them I came to the conclusion that God is real and religion is good. Now this was a time ago and my faith is solid, many people are at this point in their faith journy, and if you think that every little snappy comeback you make is gonna shake the very core of their beliefs, then you are one narcissistic person.
What? Really, If I were to say that I survived a car crash I would see that as a miracle of God and I would also thank myself for putting on the seat belt and taking other measurements of safety. Would you yourself ever think that maybe, just maybe I could have died even with these safety precautions just because of Religion. No, you will say something similiar if not equal to: It's all probability you only survived because of the seat belt would God have saved you if you did not have it on? Or It's all probability she only died because a coincidental malfunction of the seat belt, there is no God. That's being close-minded you never stop and think, maybe, just maybe it could have actually been a miracle. You only see everything chance or fate.
Depends on the crash really. In 6th grade, A friend of mine got into a car accident with her whole family. She specifically went flying through the window and survived, albeit with some minor short term memory problems, but survived nonetheless. Why is it you immediately have to attribute God to that? Now if you survived a car accident in which your car was hit by a large truck, flew off the road at near 100mph and hit a tree or something, and you survived.... that is unexplainable. But you can't simply attribute the spiritual to anything that happens. And so you know, before you tell me God saved my friend, think about the fact she landed on grass. Her sister meanwhile, died that night. She landed on the concrete. Why would God have not saved her? If God only saves a handful of people, and not all of them, why? As in, if there are 100 car accidents in one day, for instance, and out of them, (and for the example they were each moderately severe and equal in that severity), and only 20 survive... why would he save only those twenty and not them all? What could any of those twenty have done to deserve to live where others did not?
Ever get the feeling that maybe God is all-knowing but that does not mean he can see into the future, it never said anywhere in the Bible that God can see in the future. This means that God does not kill people and we are truly at free will on this planet to do as we please.
Isn't he described as omniscient and omnipotent? Because if he is omniscient, then he can see anything, and would know how everything that will and has ever happened will transcend. And if he is omnipotent, he has the power to stop or change anything. Besides, if he can't see in the future like that, he wouldn't be able to save you in that car accident- thus, miracles can't/don't occur. And I never said he is killing people in that example. I'm saying he is willingly letting them die while saving others.
You have just won second place for the 'most close-minded person I have ever met' award! Congratulations! Honestly, there's absolutely no good way to continue debating you after that statement. Pretty much what you said is "I am right, you are wrong, and you are wrong because I AM RIGHT and I can never be wrong!" I'm not really sure what you think I'm talking about, so I will reiterate: You can apply statistics to religious belief. Since no religion has more or less proof than any other religion, you must assume that all religions are on equal ground. From here we can easily see that the probability of you being correct is very small. Protip: Before you can refute anything I just said, you have to prove that your religion is, in some way, more correct than any other religion. Actually, it saddens me quiet a lot when I can't get through to someone. It happens far more often online, though. Most people I talk to about religion IRL convert pretty quickly; I guess my arguments have more weight in person. Now, to respond to the rest of that: It still doesn't matter how long you have been pondering the answers. It doesn't matter if you have spend 10 minutes or 10 years believing in god, you are still responsible for providing equally powerful arguments for why you are correct. This isn't some emotional discussion; when it comes down to it, what we are discussing here is a yes or no, right or wrong, set-in-stone answer. There's no room for what you believe in, only the facts.
Except we're subjected to eternal damnation if we don't devote our lives to a god that we can only believe in through faith and/or interpretation. But other than that, yeah! Go life!