Okay guys, ive found myself with a lot of extra time on my hand because I wont be on my xbox for a month or so, maybe longer, so with this time basicly im wanting to design the perfect MLG map. Well by perfect I mean what you guys would say is perfect & what YOU want! All I need you guys to do is suggest overall layout of the map, aesthetics you want encorperated to the map and a theme. Dont go, "Hey! Wait a minute... You want us to design a map for you!" because that is not what I am asking for at all. I merely want you to suggest the latter parts, not the whole map. I will be taking all your ideas (as long as they are plausable and would work well), designing the map and building the map. Credit will be awarded were needed! So now all I need you to do is do the best you can to get your ideas across to me, whether that be a detailed peice of text or even a quick picture on paint or whatnot. Now it is up to you, my imagination is terrible and it takes me a long time to come up with all this and even then some people dont even like that so with this small community input onto a map, we can make an epic map together. Okay now get going. PS: I did say I have no imagination, but once someone can get the ball rolling I input alot and I will also suggest ideas myself and you can weave and change it yourself. Plus I will allow a bit of argueing in the thread if you think an idea is stupid, but no flaming, also feel free to change other peoples ideas as well..
There are multiple gametypes within the category of MLG. You'll get a better map if you specify from the beginning whether you're going for CTF, King, Oddball, or plain Slayer. I'd love to help you out, but I'm sure you'll understand the different gametypes have very different requirements, and it will help your map if it is designed for one specifically from the beginning.
Yeah that is the kind I wanted to do, so you think a theme like the trees would be good? some sort of structure coming out of the skybubble floor, varied sizes like a tower and the map attached to those? I was thinking more of a slayer and KOTH map, maybe CTF. Most slayer maps can support KOTH really easily and while im designing I think I will concentrate on KOTH while building so that it doesnt look half assed, I will probally make the main areas of the map (like the top mid of gaurdian) the main parts for the hills etc, and the rest of the map built round that for slayer...
For King here's my input. You want all spawns to be within reasonable distance of the hill. Nobody would seriously want to play King on Narrows, because spawning across the map would hurt too much, and Pit King had a similar problem with the base hills. The first hill must be absolutely balanced for both teams. If your map is symmetric, that means its on the center line. For asymmetric, you'll have to balance test a lot to get the starting spawns and the first hill location evenly spaced and balanced for power weapons. All hills need to be exposed. MLG gametypes discourage players from fighting while scoring objective. In oddball and CTF they've done this by making the objective not a one hit beatdown, so fighting while still holding it doesn't work, and in King, they put the hills in exposed positions, but there's always a nearby place to take cover outside of the hill. To save your own life, you have to stop scoring objective. Contrast this with Bungie objective games, where a hill such as Pit's sword bridge hill extends into the OS spawn and you're relatively safe down there, and in CTF you can go on a flag spree if you're campy enough. Don't put a hill dead center on the map. Others might disagree, but this is the biggest problem I've got with King on Citadel. Inverse symmetry of the map dictates that the first hill has to be in the very middle, for balance's sake, but that hill is exposed from a full 360 degrees, making it extremely difficult to get any decent time on. One game I played on an MLG Citadel King variant, the score at the first hill movement was 10-5. Yeah, combined 15 points in 2 minutes. Construct and Pit put their middle hill on the center line, so both teams have equal access to it, but they've put it off to one side, so it is more like 180 degrees it can be shot from at rather than 360. Give some variety to hill locations. Up high, down low, different kinds of LOS to watch for. Just don't let it get stale. I recommend checking out some other maps' hill locations and drawing from the ones you like best.
It would never be in MLG if you are hoping that, now they even took of Guardian from MLG playlist. Guess what map they put instead? Yeah, Midship. I'm not saying you should copy Midship, but you should make the map at least symmetrical. You are using rocks, don't try imitate something that won't look nothing like. And try making it simple, clean. Halo 3 lacks competitive KotH games, its a good choice.
Thanks for the advice, I was worried the thread would get burried lol. As I noted, I wont be on for a month or so, so that last suggestion to have a look at other maps is a no can do, im wanting to design the map from scratch and not have to take other proven maps, I want the community to state which they want, but the information you gave me will be usefull. Im thinking of a symetrical map on symetric gametypes but the maps layout to be built so that on asymetric gametypes it will be asymetric. For that it would have to be in a sort of H shape EG. ====== ll == == ll ====== Colour coded sides. The dark colours are the area of the base that would be inaccessable on asymetric gametypes such as one flag and ffa KOTH. Obv thats only a basic layout but it will give you the idea. If the map supports MLG well and plays equally & there is enough demand for the map to be in a playlist then it will get in, they just wouldnt say no, its gaming suicide ;p I understand that, it was just theoretical that idea, as I said not every idea is going to be in the map, its just suggestions and brainstorming. Ill go over the thread when im designing the map. Thats a good thing, I always love KOTH and it keeps away the noobs. Amazing how many times you take over an infection party as leader and everyone scatters when the KOTH emblem destroys the infectious sign ;p
Give people a reason to drop their BR. Some nice, semi-tight center structure would work. Or bases like on MLG Ldown. The best MLG games I've ever played are the ones where I was in a firefight with my BR thinking "damn I wish I had snaged that mauler" or "where the hell is an SMG when I need one?"
So you mean you want people to be forced to use different weapons, not by physically making them, but by making them need to, to win? PS: Ill edit this post when I look at MLG ldown, with some suggestions to that EDITTED: So a 2 floored base on either side? Its prooven and tested, but is this what everyone really likes?
1. Yes, that is what I mean. The team with greater veriety should win. Not just the one with the best sniper. 2. I was moreso referring to a very open base, where you will have a very hard time simply camping there. But multi-floored bases are also nice.
No your going to much into detail on the current MLG maps, you need something different. Yet needed... Think about it this way. MLG Multiflag on MLG Onslaught loads as your game.. Your game plan (as with everyone elses) 1 top B, 1 top A and 1 top mid, remaining man enemy base. Spawn kill on sight. Key points: Height Advantage dominates from all 3 key points, all members can spawn kill simultaneously. Remaining member is free to force spawn enemies at each side. Advantages to win: Aerial Supremacy Spawn killing MLG Team Slayer on MLG Amplified, Gameplan: Scatter but stay in LoS with team mates. Support each other, Control purple. Stay out of Bases. (IMO Amplified is THE worst map in the MLG circuit, it doesnt play well at all.) Key Points: LoS within team mates can help dominate by support power, avoiding Spawn areas prevents being assassinated easily, without a radar its hard to know when someone spawns directly behind you. AVOID THIS! Advantages to win: Line of Sight. Skill MLG Team Ball on MLG LDown, Gameplan: Have 1 member occupy top tower, Ball carrier stay top A, Support member in top A also, Remaining member sit on Carbine (The part opposite Top Tower used to have a carbine rifle there, thus known as Carbine/Car) Key Points: Height Advantage once again dominates, Top Tower prevents spawning near A Tower Stairs, and force spawn enemy either in B Base (usually down bottom) or B Base top. This allows TopTower and Car members to spawn kill enemies with ease. Support player helps to protect the ball carrier in the confined top on Top A. Advantages to win: Aerial Supremacy Spawn Killing Comments: This plays almost exactly the same as Onslaught, with a completely different objective MLG Team Slayer on MLG Pit, Gameplay: Acquire custom powerup, and control one of, if not both, sniper rifles, claim rockets. Remain on own half of the map allowing team sight from spawns to instantly fall on allies. Rather than having to run across half the map to find a team mate. Key Points: Controlling the power weapons and power ups is key to winning the pit. It is rare that an opponent can keep getting kill for kill when they are completely outgunned. Advantages to win: Weapon Control "Camping" Power up Control Basically, I've chosen typical examples of what you can find in the MLG Playlist. You might not agree with Gameplans, but personally thats what I've been doing and its gotten me an easy 35 so far. Anyway that isn't whats important, what is important are the points i've made about each. Advantages to win: Aerial Supremacy (Height advantage) x2 Ability to Spawnkill x2 Weapon Control x1 "Camping" x1 Powerup Control x1 Skilled Players x1 The need of good Lines of Sight x1 Looking over these points, its arguable that every match needs skilled players, but no matter how skilled players you have on your team, you can always find more skilled players who can isolate the other points better than you, which in the end, will secure an easy victory. Retrieving those points for yourself is the key to winning any match. The map which you are currently designing needs all of the above points, which will be every MLG fanatics fantasy. Having the ability to do exactly what they need to to secure victory. WHAT YOU NEED:(Yes there was a point to all of that^) If the objective is to secure the hill, the hill is usually controlled by one person, the other 3 must be able to set up a spawn trap. Each members must have one other member still in their line of sight (if structured correctly, without making the map too open, Taking Onslaught as an example, all members on the towers should see either each other, or the single person in the enemy base (unless facing backwards), and the person in their base should be able to see one team mate at all times when attempting to spawn kill or retrieve objective.)Comments: This will be the hardest to achieve The use of power weapons should be identified carefully according to the playstyle of your map. All foundry maps are too small to have Sniper/Rockets. If your map is as Small, dont include the usual weapons. Include the strategic choice. Again with a small map, the use of CPU wouldnt be advised unless it strategically changes gameplay. (in the pit, the CPU can get the team the critical kills to gain the lead/survive or secure the counter cap) Making attaining the CPU a Secondary Objective in gameplay. Camping should only be used if it requires it, with MLG Ball, the ball carrier must camp really, there should be strategic locations to do this (top A/B in Ldown, S2/1 or Blue room in Guardian) The map should be designed to justify skilled players. Allow players room to expand. (All trick jumps on guardian. I.e. Bottom mid - top mid jump.) Try not to make any jumps overly obvious. It defeats the object of allowing skilled players to use these to their advantage. The map should contain key points of interest that vary in Height. (Guardians S3, MLG Onslaughts Towers, Ldowns Tower etc...) The height advantage some players can obtain can dramatically change the playstyle of any map. Also LoS from these points must also be shielded not to make each point overly powerful. Using the points above, you can utilise whats best about the current maps. Try not to compare all the best bits physically about what already exists, instead you should analyse what makes those best bits so great about each map. I've done the Foundry ones and the Slayer on Pit, you need to go into detail with the rest.
Asym maps are MUCH better in my opinion. It is more challenging for designers and forgers to make a balanced asym map but if you could pull it off it would be fonominal(spelling?). If you do make an asym, try to make each part have 3 entrances but not underpowered. The only reason people didn't like guardian was because of the camping...not because its asym.
Phenominal I think is the spelling Also, i'm not really sure if anyone didnt like Guardian, but for Team games and MLG games, as far as I'm aware it was the only Asymmetrical map? And Asymmetrical maps are always biased towards one team no matter how you set the map up. Its just generally unfair. Especially when it comes to symmetrical gametypes (slayer and flag and ball) You wouldnt be able to hybrid those maps, guardian is asymmetrical narrows and pit are symmetrical.. it wouldnt really work.
Technically, gaurdian is mirrored. Which is how I want the map to be in asymetric gametypes. Gaurdian is only unfair because it is a themed map and the level geometry doesnt fit the layout. Shoulder on gaurdian is like the corridor leading to the drop above shotty. The jets are mirrored, its just hard to imagine, but it is. Read back over my posts and that is the layout I will probally go with. While I was in church I was thinking and I thought about a map on star wars battlefront. I think it was the second one but it may have been the first, and basicly it was a load of circular platforms at varied heights like landing pads with ramps interconnecting them and they were all floating above the sea connected to a building themed like that scene in star wars were the clones cut open the door and it was all white from what I recall. But newho, I was thinking a circular platform in the middle with two ramps on either side, one leading upwards to the top floor of a base and one down to the bottom but it wouldnt be symetrical, it wouldnt be mirrored, it would be rotational symetry 2 so you can spin it round twice and it would fit into itself twice. and from there maybe platforms coming of the middle area, or a long tunnel going over the top of the middle like gaurdian but over the top so people bellow can still shoot up and it will be a quick way to get from one side to the other without being shot from the sides as such, but if one person is shooting down the tunnel at you, your ****ed ;p Thoughts?
I never really talk aestethics, but your saying you should base the map on something inbetween an asymmetrical map and a symmetrical map (well two thirds symmetrical and 1 third asymmetrical to be exact) which you cant do, the map is either going to be asymmetrical or symmetrical. Theres nothing worded in between. Also in response to B3n, Guardians Overall layout is similar of a symmetrical map, because A) it has 2 "bases" opposite each other which is linked by two "parallel" paths and B) the shape of the paths dont really vary. The differences with what you've pointed out are mainly the two linking paths. But regardless its still asymmetrical as a finish. The base sizes differ, one has 3 levels the other has two. One is wide, the other is small. I know the map, But considering differences in gameplay, that is a game based on being a one man army. Your allies are very weak and get killed by the enemy AI nearly all the time because the player is more skilled so the battles are evened that way. With a fair 4v4 playstyle i dont think the map would play as effectively as youd imagine it to. I think in general it could be a good idea. However, I think with MLG playstyle, you'd need to develop these disks/rings over other land. As the only map with a pitfall, is Narrows and Narrows is about 80 - 20 Land - Pitfall ratio. The map your suggesting would probably fall under less than 50 - 50 Land - Pitfall, making the overall gameplay much much harder.
MLG would refuse to put an asymmetric forged map in the playlist. I'm 90% sure of it. The fact is, symmetrical maps just work way better for MLG. This will never happen. No MLG will have power weapons enough to make you drop the BR, and even if it had, no one would do it. I mean, its just stupid to hold rockets AND sniper, when you could give your teammate one of them. EDIT: one more thing: make save spawns. For exemple, onslaught spawns suck. Bad.
No MLG wouldnt refuse every asymetric map. Im proposing an asymetric map with rotational symetry, exactly like that new mythic map, the whole map is rotational.