A Theory on Infection Mapmaking

hey i have recently made an infection game map and i was wondering if you sarge could look at it and give me ur opinion.
Map:Bungie.net : Halo 3 File Details

Varient:Bungie.net : Halo 3 File Details

tyvm much appreciated if u or anyone wants to.

 

Sounds like personal advertising to me, you could always just pm or vm this request, and I suggest you do so.

 

Okay, one thing i would disagree on would be the fun factor i find when i play these infection types and the adding of popular psyche. When i play a said fat kid game i beleive that it's not fair for the infected, but for everyone else its great! There are still moments i remember with the old Omega Journey's that i think are some of the funnest moments i have ever had. Some things i would concider are the people who play the games. When you have a group of friends i find that you like to agree on certain similar concepts such as the game itself, how goofy it is and how well everyone gets along. Yet, usually i also find it is better to involve everyone in the group, but lets be honest there are a fairly large amount of dooshbags on x-box live, also mainly based on the "you can't see me and i can block you after saying hurtful things and then leaving" theory, so, i usually turns into a loss in one friend for a group of others. Yet, you still have fun and i always enjoyed myself playing those. For the most part i do think that you should write another type of guide. That may sound dumbfounding to a certain degree because i understand you may have had influence writing this under the competition type of infection instead of the mini-game/ extra casual infection that i just described.

 

An interesting read, very well written. A couple comments though.

- The title seems misleading. Infection is BIG. Very big. You wrote in incredible detail about one small facet - the more realistic kind of "humans surviving unlimited zombie onslaught." There is lots more to infection than just that. Things like Halo on Halo and Peasant Hunt are another beast entirely that I thought you were going to cover from looking at the title. Not a bad thing, just mentioning it.

- I am surprised that I didn't see you make any mention of lives or anything like that. Games where humans don't turn into zombies after dieing (as in, they just sit there in the deathcam screen for 20 minutes) are unbelievably boring. Same goes for games where zombies have like 3 lives. Time should be the main enemy for both sides. If the zombies have to worry constantly about dieing, they won't take risks and combat won't keep moving. Either that or each round will last approximately 30 seconds, which is completely not fun.

- Realism isn't totally necessary. It just is a very helpful guide for balance purposes, which I think is why you stressed that so much.

- One kind of "breadcrumb" trail that I have been playing with in my head for a long time is having humans spawn in a man area with a pitiful amount of ammo in a very easily defendable location. When they run out of ammo, they have to move on to a less desirable location. As they keep running out of ammo they have to move on to areas that are more and more difficult to defend, although they might have slightly more ammo.

- I am surprised you didn't stress originally a lot. You might have hinted at it here or there, but for the most part every infection map would start to look the same after a while. Removing some realism can always add a lot of flavor to a map and make it into something unique.

Either way, very nice article. You should definitely make a part two for covering minigame-like infection variants and maps.

 

Wow. Sarge basically just blew my infection guide flat out of the water. Not surprising, but surprising.

 

I liked it. I never thought about how teleporters can mess maps up so much. I don't really use them though so thats why. I can tell that this guide will help a lot of people entering the contest. The graphs were also pretty interesting. It is very true that you have done the map relatively right when it is an exponential curve upward, but I think that depends on what kind of map/ gametype you're playing...

 

Mkay.

So I see what you're doing here, you're giving a guide on how to make the traditional Zombies experience better. I think you accomplished that, and this guide will help those who are new to Infection get off to a good start without making all the classic mistakes that we so loathe. So props there.

What I would have liked to see is some explanation of innovation. The Infection gametype can be used for a multitude of different games, and some games I've played don't even feel like Zombies. At the very least, I'd like to have seen some aknowledgement that the Infection gametype can be used for much more than traditional Zombies.

I also disagree on some aspects of the guide, such as making the Alpha Infected so similar to regular infected, and having similar weapons waiting for you in an armory. I think both of these things can easily be countered by balance in the gametype, and should not be shunned as "Incorrect"; even for traditional Zombies.

Other than that, good guide. Best place to go for anyone looking to begin forging for Infection.

 

Thanks for the Tips, I already knew em, but since your such a good writer I kept reading.
Lol.

 

Sarge, great job. This guide seems to be as accurate and as descriptive as one could hope for such a dynamic game style. You addressed what needed to be addressed. Hopefully, this guide will help upcoming forgers learn how to approach Infection maps while using their own styles and common sense.

Next time I endeavor to craft a map for the zombiepocalypse, I will be sure to consult this guide, and I know I will be aided as much as a general bit of information could be. Once again, great guide.

 

I understand that a lot of people are having several concerns with this guide but for what you made it for and intended this guide is excellent. There are a lot, and I mean a LOT, of issues that forgers, including myself, make when trying to make infection maps. Most notably on my mind is the fact that they are usually very one-sided. I am so thankful for you making this guide I believe it will be very helpful to numerous people. Kudos Sarge

 

Thank You

This is a wonderful guide. I am so sick of playing fat kid and gametypes with unlimited BR ammo with one shot zombies. There are so many maps with almost unlimited ammo and super safe ammories. We need more games that use fear to drive players insted of humans finding zombies. Infection is not a game of who can find the zombie first but rather a game of survival. I have found that games with limited mag ammo and low health zombies works great. Congrats on this post I hope it gets a great deal of traffic.

 

You just made my day, sir. one of the reasons i became addicted to halo was a good infection game. unfortunataly, ive noticed a steep decline in quality of infection maps and gametypes. I hope this guide helps all of those poor misguided 6 year olds who beleive that fat kid is a gift from god. if some good forgers read this and decide to create a good balanced game, i truly beleive it could save infection. i also agree completely with your statement about forges beauty in challenge (Sig'ed it!). i love trying to figure out how to make a psychotic friends even more insane idea work. i recently made a switch to allow a game where the first person to fling their corpse in the crypt from the skybubble wins. it was some of the most fun i've had in a while. ive got to leave, but im just curious, any info on your map u mentioned?

 

Great post, as it is sure to help novice players and long time forgers alike to create better infection maps. If i ever see a 'n00bish' infection map again, i'll be sure to include a link to this post in the replies.

 

In my opinion Strategy and Common Sense are more important than map configuration on any day. There'll always be exploitable facets on a map, and there should be if the gameplay is going to be dynamic at all! I think it would be better to encourage smarter players than simply restrict player freedom and force brief less strategic interaction. Infection matchmaking used to be fun precisely for that reason...whether human or zombie you could exploit your strengths to win. Be it humans getting up high and drawing zombies into the open, or zombies staying hidden and drawing humans into close quarters there was a continual give and take between the two sides (again if the players possessed even an ounce of intelligence.) Sadly Bungie has sought to remove this dynamic gameplay because when humans camp zombies run out like morons and get slaughtered and this seems unfair...WRONG! It's not unfair, your strategy sucks...I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth. For some reason, and I can't understand why, everyone wants a 3 minute game so Bungie has basically overpowered zombies and weakened humans to get it over with quick...but honestly I would think this would make humans camp even more right? Not to mention that without a reasonable balance of power gameplay is over so quickly that you barely have time to explore a map let alone enjoy it before you get backsmacked by some jacked up undead. *Sigh*

 

Hey Sarcasm, great analysis of the infection mode; Its about time the tactical aspect of the Infection mode had coverage. Mind you, to a decent infection map, knowing how the map works is the half of it; the other half requires the ability to build a realistic map (Which you only briefly touched on at the end), since atmosphere is best achieved in a believeable enviroment, achieved by building realistic structures. This is mainly since most people know the layout of realistic buildings, e.g. supermarket, church, subway, therefore by mimicing this architecture it involves the player more. Also, how the mode can then be implemented into those realistic designs is key; you can have a pretty map, but if the gameplay is terrible, whats the point? These maps are easier for people to relate to, and automatically look for places they know to defend, e.g. the tower of the church, a long two ended tunnel in the subway etc. Then the trick is to crush those stereotypes by giving the zombies access to the places where players feel the most safe, and making them find new, unfamiliar places to defend. E.g. Offering the humans a Steeple in a church; human instinct tells them height makes them safe, and an overview of the area gives them an advantage, but, to balance the gameplay, this can be turned on the humans simply by either placing a teleport or mancannon to fire zombies into the tower to make it more dangerous upstairs in the tower, which now comes across as a compact space to defend in instead of an open long area of inside the main church.
I hope this is an area you could focus on more possibly as an extension to your post; to achieve a more realistic zombie game you have to create a more realistic map with it.

Cheers,

T.G.

 

Good guide. Even though I already knew pretty much everything in there, it was a good refresher. As Debayter pointed out, that guide part is pretty cool. I never actually thought about infection games like that, but you're right. That elusive third graph really is what they should aspire to be. And it's cool that you mentioned Morrowind for the immersive world part. It's my favourite RPG of all time and really deserves the recognition in that aspect of the game.

 

sarge:
Kalimah! KALIMAH! KALIMAAAH! In case you didn't catch the reference, some mapmakers literally deify the power-ups, okay maybe they don't worship them, but they tend to build altar-esque structures around these game-changing items, which is fine in most maps, but never in the glorious game of death that is Russian rou-infection. I do love me some roulette though.
end of sarge
and i love me some shoutbox roulette, where the hell did that go?
great guide. i see youve added another thing to your list of accomplishments(spelling?) its just too bad you couldnt of finished this after the hub of the dead contest.
also, i'd like to point out, i still think your update was better than this massive wall-o-text.
on a side note, fat kid anyone?

 

Great guide. Nothing really exceptional or unusual here, just a well-written collection of common sense. I agree completely, and applaud you for taking the time to put this together.

 

Well done, I hope this guide inspires more than just better built infection maps, because it makes a statement about the direction that forging has gone, all the maps blend together and have the same general play style and flow. There is more to consider when making a map then just the layout and what weapons go where, and I hope this will help people understand that.