Debate Should teenagers have the right to choose whether they go to church or not?

The problem is, religion isn't taught to kids like political ideals. Religious parents don't say "Well, if there's a god and you do bad things, he sends you to hell" they say "There IS a god, and when you sin he DOES send you to hell, and Jesus was god in human form, and he died for our sins, and free will and souls exist, and even if you've never sinned you're evil, because everyone is guilty of original sin, and you can't see god, but he's everywhere, and you HAVE to believe in god or else you don't go to heaven e.c.t e.c.t".

Teaching morals I have no problem with, but if you genuinely believe that your political and religious stances are correct, then you should believe that your kids will reach the same conclusions, and let them decide themselves by giving them an unbiased overview of political ideals. Anything else would be belittling and hypocritical.

 

You'll learn how to be thankful in the end.. it takes time.

Religion ideals and political ideals are two very different things.

You don't tell a kid how to murder if you believe it's wrong. You don't tell a kid how to make a molotov cocktail if you think they shouldn't use it. You don't tell your kid to lie so they can learn from their mistakes. You simply just tell them the right way, so that they don't realize the dark side.

Haven't you ever seen Star Wars? The good guys never learn the "secrets" of the dark side!

 

This is a pretty reasonable approximation to what I would call an ideal attitude towards parenting and possible imparting of religion. Belief in one's own ideas, but faith in one's children to reach them on their own times, and open mindedness at the same time.

That said, pretty much everyone in here is still focusing on religion as the sole object of discussion with this principle. And it really, really mystifies me. Look, I know people gravitate towards religious vs atheistic argument in general in here, you only have to look at the on-going God thread to see that. And I'm pretty sure I know why as well: Where difference of opinion is concerned, political disagreement is gonna be pretty heated, but no where near as heated as disagreements over the very nature of existence and the universe, not just our own human context. As I see it, people run up against opposition to their chosen understanding of the universe and, on a certain level, find it so unfathomable that someone would appreciate the universe in a different way that they fixate on this aspect of human nature as it's own issue. Now this is completely understandable, difference on such a basic point of existence is gonna get opposition stirred up in the biggest sense. But please realise that this is, once again, your human nature as a self reacting, and not necessarily the beneficial path for discussion. See parenting, religion, the role of society and government, and most importantly this proposition for what they are, and don't let your human reaction to these things (guided by emotion at the very base of your actions, instead of purely by logic, since you are an emotional creature you can't avoid this or pretend this isn't the case and expect it to work, you've got to account for and deal with it) hinder argument.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again now, religion is not the single focus of what is being put forward here, we're also dealing with SIGNIFICANT restrictions being placed on the rights of parents to raise their child. I do wish that people would stop passing this off as such an easy question when I've illustrated time and again how this is not as clear cut a proposition as many seem to be making out. If you don't appreciate both sides of this argument (the one people are constantly ignoring being distinctly more important in social terms imo).

That's a pretty strange distinction you're drawing there Nor, morals and religion aren't nearly as distinct as you're putting forward by saying that one is OK in parenting and one is. Religion is a moral appreciation of the universe down to society as it now stands, you can't really separate them like that.

Again, I really think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. To count religion as it manifests itself as an aspect of human nature allows for it to extend beyond humanity as an isolated principle. If you don't believe in religion, then how can it exist as an independent aspect of humanity in itself, as opposed to wholly a product? Honestly, how? If it's a product, then it should be appreciated as such, and giving it the credit of something independent of humanity (something is either there before or afterwards, cause or product, and religion is product based on a lack of faith in it).

 

Just don't go ....... I told my parents one day that Im done going and they were mad at first but they got over it and didn't really go that much after I stopped. If your parents really love you than they wont care what you do as long as you still do the right thing in the end.

 

Gollygeeanelite is FORCED to go.

 

Well, what I mean is that the morals of a religion should be taught. Just that the religious lessons should not. Because religion is clearly a choice. I understand that a parent might want their child to follow the same religion, but it's really a choice that the child has to make later on in their life. For example, I was forced to go to church for 15 years before I stood up to my parents about it. I was actually getting punished for not following their religion. It's ridiculous.

 

Agreed, they are your parents. It's not abuse because they are not punishing you or hitting you, they are forcing you to go which they have rights to do as parents.

They can force you to go to school and it's not illegal or abuse, they are just doing what they think is right for you.

How is it wrong, your parents follow these religions and they were taught that religion by their parents, as a teenager you choose to be rebellious what you think is wrong and abusive is just rebellion, once you pass this stage you will understand that you will only choose what you think is best for your children.

Are you angry at your parents because they want to get you to go to heaven. I know you don't believe in it, but they do, are you angry at them because they want that for you are you angry because they believe that if you believe in God you will go to "paradise". It's sort of pathetic Norlinsky if you are angry at them over this.

your parents will always do what they think is best for you if they love you.

 

So if my parents brought me up to kill kittens, I should accept it because that's what my parents think is best?

 

I see religion in the same sense as something like honesty or political beliefs. Yes, they were created by humans, but religion, like honesty, is something that comes (to religious people today) naturally. There's no reason to believe it, like there is no reason to believe that honesty is a wholly good trait, but they still do.
Religion is, however, in it's most basic sense, a product of humanity. I just don't think the way that religion behaves memetically is that of a product, but more of a natural act.

 

Plus, a $270 xbox? That's nothing! Just think if you lost all of your friends, relatives, pets, and your house.

At least you have these things to begin with.

 

I was in pretty much the same situation in high school Gollygeeanelite. The short answer is there's nothing you can do for now. Your parents do get to bring you to church, and they do get to discipline you if you refuse. They have a right, an obligation really, as parents to teach you everything they think you need to know, and their religion happens to be one of those things that they believe you need.

Look from their point of view, they (probably) believe that nonbelievers go to hell, or at least don't get to go to heaven. What kind of parents would they be if they knowingly let you go there? You need to talk to them and come up with some kind of agreement. And the talk can't be "I don't want to go I'm not going and that's final!" Ask them questions about what specifically they believe, and how they can possibly believe they're right and other religions are wrong. Lay out why you don't believe, and what it would take to change your mind. Maybe it'll work maybe it won't.

That sorta worked for me anyway, I spent a long time fighting with my parents and calling their religion bullshit before we had that calm conversation. They insisted over and over again that the only reason I didn't want to go to confirmation class or to church was that it was easier not to and I was being lazy. I never managed to change their mind of that, but I got them to agree on an endpoint. I had to continue going to all the BS classes, and attending church every Sunday, but when those classes were over I could choose whether or not to get confirmed and continue going to church. At that point I was still a year and a half away from confirmation, but knowing that I only had to put up with it for a little while was good enough, and I didn't have to either pretend to believe or make them angry anymore. I ended up getting confirmed because my mom started crying when I told her I didn't want to, but I haven't been to a church outside of funerals since(almost 4 years now).

 

Well no one should be forced to go or do anything. Freedom of religion is a part of our countries history and there should be no exceptions for families. "live free or die" is my state motto and I believe in it.

 

This debate doesn't even make sense. Isn't it obvious that parents should be allowed to teach their kids things. Forgetting the religion part for a second, the basic question is should parents teach their kids what they think is right. The answer is of course yes. Why wouldn't you say yes. What if the kid wanted to **** his pants instead of using the bathroom? What if the kid wants to kill people? What if the kid wants to do drugs? What if the kid wants to be in a gang? all of these thing you would probably think are wrong yet you single out religion because you don't like it when it is the same sort of thing. You are just as welcome to teach your kids to be atheists, agnostics, whatever. In fact, the wording of your question would say that this should be allowed while forcing kids to go to church wouldn't, that's just wrong because of it's hypocrisy. A better question is why do you search through our society to find trivial matters like this or "In God we trust" on money and try to blow them up into giant religious debates?

 

Well like you said it shouldn't be a religious debate but if kids should be forced into something and thats not right and this case its church it could be any of the other things you listed drugs and other activities especialy.

 

Like Pegasi stated, it's in our nature to force our beliefs onto our kids.

 

Agreed, now everything is involving God, and I can't really seem to grasp why people quote me and write inside of the quote, it's annoying to quote them back, sorry Gollygeeenelite. I'm not replying until you actually quote me fairly, I take the time to actually break up the quotes you should do the same.

Also, I know very well that you do not necessarily need to go to Church to go to Heaven, I was talking about them trying to convert you by going to church so that you can be accepted by God.

Is it wrong if your parents force you to go to a remedial class if they catch you smoking tobacco. There is really nothing wrong with going to church in the first place, one or two hours of church to learn about God is not even a punishment. It's the same as playing a game, you waste your time anyways getting points that will never really get you any recognition at all or an award.

Obviously if it gets to the point where they attack you verbally or physically you have to take action and that is abuse, but if they take you to church just because they want what they think is best for you is not even a punishment and you should know that they do it for what they believe will bring you good.

No one is going to tell you to kill cats, obviously your parents will know that will not benefit you.

They believe Religion will benefit you and the least you could do as a sign of respect to them is just go.

 

The invisible pink unicorn tells us to kill cats. If we don't, we won't go to unicorn heaven.
There, justified.

 

Only if they love you.