Debate God

I have never claimed that God was far-fetched, I just said that, you can't say because there is a small chance of life isn't a 100% of a God. Random events do happen. Evolution is a random event I believe. I think that's why some cave animals resemble animals outside of caves, but they are much different, they evolved into these creatures. Hell even Humans are evolving, we are getting bigger, like height wise. It's a slow evolutionary track of course, no one will wake up with gills one day. It would take millions of generations to even generate a result like gills, or even sustained holding of the breath and a breath hole.

Evolution is not a far-fetched theory at all, all living organisms share similar cells, from a perspective like this where our Earth is already very old, you can't really tell if we are related to that fern, or that house cat. It takes a look under a microscope to reveal that we are not too different. Sure plants gained extra parts in their cells, and animals have different parts, but that doesn't mean we can't have been built off of the same roots.

 

Nor, I think they all do believe in Mithra but they simply don't know it; or rather, they believe in the idea of Mithra.

Here's how I see it: the Bible is a history book. It explains past events recorded by human beings alive during that time. Now, everyone knows that humans are flawed; we make mistakes. Even the Bible says that. Does this not mean that the Bible could be wrong about things. I believe that many things within the bible did happen; not necessarily the off-the-wall stories like Noah's Ark and Jesus' rebirth, but things such as Jesus actually existing.

Now, with over 2000 years of time between the time period depicted in the Bible and now, there would be room for mistakes. There will be misinterpretations, exaggerations, and just plain wrong things written in the Bible. This is even more possible due to the lower levels of intelligence and knowledge back then, meaning that most people hadn't developed the complex, abstract ways of thinking that we take for granted everyday. They weren't aware of a disease that can cause someone's blood to be water-like in appearance, as described when Jesus was crucified. There's also huge possibilities of translating the Hebrew incorrectly.

Now, many Christians will say that the Bible is the word of God, and he would not let wrong information into the Bible. However, since they believe God gave mankind freewill, that opened them up to mistakes. Why wouldn't God just not let people kill each other? Why would he be so much more concerned about making sure facts in a book were correct than protecting innocent lives?

It's all a very interesting thought, but in short, Mithra and Jesus were probably the same person. Ancient texts are just begging to be misinterpreted, and in this case it would seem that Christians do not nearly understand even their own religion, just as scientists and atheists can only take shots in the dark as to where the true origin of the universe truly lies.

 

Ahhh! See how he subtly changes his claim so as to avoid actually discussing the actual issue. I never said that there were any life forms on a random planet exactly like us. I said that there were more than likely intelligent life forms elsewhere in the Universe. You originally said that we were the only lifeforms of our intelligence in the Universe. You've contradicted yourself.

Why did you dodge my question asking if you've ever had any classes in chemistry, biology, or physics? Your attempts at discussing scientific matters continually fail because the information you present is always wrong. For example: You claimed that the probability of finding a neutrino in the sun was equivialent to life existing when you CLEARLY didn't know what a neutrino was otherwise you would have known that you just claimed that there was a plethora of life elsewhere in the Universe. When you talk about evolution, you never actually discuss the concept of evolution, you just say goddidit or god controls it. You never once attempted to explain how god controls evolution. Why? I think it's because you don't know how evolution works.

That's a bullshit excuse for your lousy arguments. This is the debate thread. You're supposed to actually argue the point, not beat around the bush with "childish" metaphors. If someone doesn't understand something, they can look it up on the internet.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about.

My bringing up those topics is completely relevant to the discussion because they are exactly the topics we were talking about.

You started to talk about evolution, I asked if you had any biology knowledge on which to base your argument, you avoided the answer. you started talking about extraterrestrial life, I asked you if you had any astrophysics/biology knowledge on which to base your argument, you avoided the answer again.

If you hoped to have reestablished some of your worth in this debate with this post, you are sadly mistaken.

 

You two are simply attacking each other's ability to debate. You're no longer debating whether or not a god exists.

 

I have had classes in chemistry, biology, and physics, thank you.

Is that what you needed?

Here's what I said:

This means, the chance of this life (this life meaning this earthly life that we live) being as it is, is like finding something the size of a neutrino in an area the size of the sun.

Dude, just be quiet. You think I don't know how evolution works and you think that I only think that "goddidit".

You think. Great argument there, bud.

I'm sad to see you can't take me seriously. Don't talk to me, don't make things personal. Talk to the words.

"Since finding out what something is, is largely a matter of discovering what it is like, the most impressive contribution to the growth of intelligibility has been made by the application of suggestive metaphors."
-Jonathan Miller

Is it that hard for you to discuss the words, not me??

Yes, I do have astrophysics/biology knowledge. I find it funny that I even need to tell you this.

You shouldn't look up someone's history or what they've done, you should look at who they are now, and what they are doing now.

I'm not trying to reestablish worth. I say I want people to cool down, and that's exactly what I mean. Don't make assumptions that I mean something different than what I say.

Seriously, let's stop this and actually talk about the topic.


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Wow.



Edit: and when I mean I'm leaving for the day so that people (including myself) can cool off. That's exactly what I mean. That's exactly what I'm doing now.

 

He is asking because every thing you said in the offending post shows absolutely no knowledge of evolution whatsoever.

For example:

"Believing in a higher form is 1,000,000,000,000 times not only easier, but more believable than thinking evolution is the only way we exist today."

If you think evolution is driven by chance, you know nothing about evolution. There is chance involved on the small scale, but the overall path of evolution remains the same.
Flip a coin 1,000 times. The chances of it being heads? 50%. Given this, you would say that result of the coin flipping is based entirely on chance. it isn't. You are still going to end up with about 500 heads and 500 tails, just like evolution produces the same result even when chance can affect it on the individual scale.

 

Erico, a page back you said something like, "God uses evolution as a smokescreen to divide the believers and non-believers." This is what I get from that: God only rewards people who blindly believe, and punishes those who use logic (something that God gave humanity).

A posted a "conversion vs behavior" argument a while back, and I seem to be getting mixed results. Before you read this quote, in order to get into heaven all you have to do is believe in the divinity of Jesus, right?

 

I show absolutely no knowledge? Are you sure about that?

>.>

What I don't like is your use of such strong words. You're over dramatizing.

"If physics can predict lottery numbers,
why are they still working?"

It's still chance. You can use probability to try and figure out the outcome, but you can never be sure. If you toss a coin 10 times, you may get 2 heads and 8 tails. It's still based off complete chance. You wouldn't say, oh, I bet you my life that you can flip that coin 100 times and it'll land on tails more than 50 times.

Evolution is based off of chance, but it can be predicted. Even with this knowledge....

The chances of other life existing is still very very small.

I'd rather not..?

I really can't tell. I'd say whoever is so headstrong as to go and actually push God away from their lives then they don't really deserve to go to the same heaven as someone who accepts God.
If a murderer seeks out someone and plans on distinctively killing someone, then they've gone against the Commandments, and have sinned. This sin is very hard to deal with, but if this murderer does something that would erase this sin, then I think they could go into heaven...

It depends on many many things. Things that I'm not willing to judge a person on.


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So.. in the end..

 

Well you know how to be a bigot, i'lll give you that, and you're stubborn as a mule.

Spoiler

ER1C0 being over-dramatic

You're such an idiot.

Predicting the likeliness and predicting the ACTUAL NUMBERS are two different things.

Forgive me if I don't take unsupported statements from you as universal truths.

Summary: "I don't know the rules exactly, but I'm going to devote my entire life to praising something I don't have proof of, even though he is malevolent and cares more about people worshipping him than people who better the planet with their existence".

 

You aren't grasping the concept I was trying to show.
Evolution works like coin tossing. On the small scale it could have a huge effect, but on the scale of millions (a scale which evolution is on), it has almost no effect.
Flip a coin once - it will be 100% heads or 100% tails. Probability has a huge effect.
Flip it ten times - it could be something like 70% heads and 30% tails. Probability has a slightly lessened effect.
Flip it two hundred times - it's nearly impossible to have something our of the range of 60/40%.
Flip it two million times - the end result will be 50/50%.
Of course you can never predict if there will be more heads or tails in those two million tosses, but you can say with absolute certainty that the end result will be extremely close to 50/50. The same way you can say with absolute certainty how evolution is going to behave.

 

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Dude, you really need to see a gynecologist.

Yes, I see your point, but as I said before:

 

You, sir, are unintelligent.
That isn't evolution, further proof that you have no idea that you are talking about. That is abiogenesis. Read an article about it or something, instead of listening to **** like the 747 argument. The 747 argument has been debunked hundreds of times over, and it's laughable that people haven't realized that yet.
The God Delusion has a chapter explaining exactly what the 747 is, every one of the leaps of logic that it makes, and exactly why it's an absolutely ridiculous idea. You should read it.

 

When did I say it was?

/backfire

 

stop delaying

 

Uhhh... How does your quote state I thought my original quote was about evolution....... ?
All I said was that believing in God is easier and more sensible than believing only in evolution....... not that my quote was about evolution........

Those are two different things.

Don't assume.

 

Your quote was making evolution out to be fundamentally unlikely, which is absolutely not so. If you understood evolution would you understand that it's not something that may happen- it's a real thing. The chance of it existing is 1. You can't compare it to something else without it being less than that.

 

That quote wasn't about evolution.. Just like you said..

 

What?

 

I thought we were talking about this one ^