And his opinion is that your views are distorted and wrong. ??? Us and the nearest species to us. The argument you used against evolution. what did you miss?
That's where I incorporate the fear bit from. People stay in a religion because of the fear of everlasting pain and suffering.
Dont attack the thread itself, that just makes it look like your scraping for a valid argument. Since you dont have one for god, attack something that we know exists, like this thread itself.
But we just had a brief agreement that non of knows the answer to either side of the coin. So it would only make sense to go on with our lives believing and not believing and what not.
But I don't go on and say they suck their parents **** all day. If you lived in poverty and knowingly had children to help you make money, knowing that they will live in poverty and work hard themselves. Then is it good or bad? I misread it, the difference is huge which could mean that there is no evolution... Between us and whatever came before us, otherwise the other primates would have had similar intelligence. I don't live in fear, there is nothing to fear if you do good...
And that's where I get my views from. @Rain- my views aren't distorted. I'm simply looking at the bible and seeing what it says and personally, the bad outweighs the good. Yes God might have done some nice things, but killing millions and being very morally inferior to most any human being alive today makes him sadistic in my eyes. And so even in proof of his existence, I'd accept his existence, but refute the idea of worshipping him. It's like if someone argued Hitler didn't exist. He did good things too. He brought Germany up from the ashes and made the economy boom, as well as pride in their country. However, I believe he exists, and he did do those good things, but the things he did badly outweigh the good in my eyes, and I can't follow someone like that. God knows where you will end up Rain. He has known for millions upon millions of years. And he also knows where I will end up. If that is hell, then he is sick in my mind, for creating me despite knowing where I'd go. ALSO, if God exists, I see life as an incredibly pointless phenomena. More so than you might think an Atheist views life. If God exists, and is omniscient as he is supposed to be, then why is he putting us through about 80 or so years of life to get to Heaven or Hell when he knows before hand where everyone to ever and will ever exist will go. Why doesn't he just send everyone to their respective places and spare us life? Afterall, Heaven is supposed to be eternal bliss... I guess we just have to let the cake cool before we can eat it. @Rain again- You couldn't say I suck my Dad's **** because he doesn't want me to get on my knees and worship him. Nor does he threaten to punish me eternally if I don't accept him.
If you think this is pointless and don't want to debate any further, then by all means you are allowed to leave and never come back to this thread. But that doesn't mean those who want to debate shouldn't be allowed to still.
I never said his opinions weren't disrespectful. Just stating that an opinions an opinion. It is what it is. Anything in between probably just didn't have the right balance of strength and intelligence. Our nearest ancestors may not have found that groundbreaking ability to use tools and failed to advance. Thus dying out while we continued. The dumber and stronger species, like apes don't need the intelligence to survive. And anything realllllly close to us we probably just bred with and their line disappeared. Hell close ancestors were probably competition and we killed them off ourselves with our tool using abilities. It wouldn't make sense that a close ancestor would still be living. touche and respect for no fear.
I will continue to believe in nothing until I have real proof. Not interpreted proof, either. Tangible proof.
This is the reason that I don't participate in this thread, regardless of the fact that I'm 100% sure you think you know what you're talking about and you don't. Besides the fact that I've read/translated (by myself) the Bible (original only, "New" is Christian only) at least 5 times, I also have read a decent amount of (again, Jewish only) what's known in Judaism as the Oral Law. The idea of the Bible (or the Written Law) is really to interpret into the Oral Law (which DOES have elements described, but not nearly to the degree of what it seems the majority of people here believe). In that essence, the idea of religion is not to "serve God" or whatever, but to improve your life. Don't like it and want to live with no restrictions and whatever you want? Fine, go ahead. You're not going to go burn in some imaginary land under the ground. But there's a lot to be said about tradition and restriction (not without reason, obviously). That said, I'm totally against parents forcing their kids into whatever they believe in, but in it's place should be open discussion. Though in today's world, that's hard to get as is. Anyway, let's just give one quick example of what "forced slavery" actually entails from a real translation, not whatever BS you've been told... Is only to become a slave if they become bankrupt and have nowhere to go. AKA, they are homeless and living on the street with no money whatsoever. Can only go by choice and can just walk out at any point Must work the same amount/hours/kind of work as a normal worker, get paid the same as a normal worker. Gets free room and board and food at the "owners". Along with this, he must have the same accommodations as you. Same food, same bed, etc. In fact, if you have only one pillow (it's really just theoretical to get the idea over), the "slave" takes it Again, gets paid the same as a normal worker Honestly, I could go on and on about this and more or less every other topic discussed, but what I'm against is basically just slandering in the name of something you really don't know anything about. So maybe you should go back to talking about the existence of God instead of how "unfair he is" kthx
I could say the same thing about anything. By your logic, I could tell you that there is an invisible talking iPod in my closet an you would't be able to argue against me, because I am allowed to believe what I want to. But we are not arguing if you can believe it, we are arguing if it makes sense. We are arguing the difference between saying "there is a god with no proof or logic, but I believe" and "there isn't a reason to believe, because there's no reason for one to exist." By default, the answer is that there is no god - it is up to theists to prove that they are correct in their beliefs. Just like by default, it would be my responsibility to prove that there is an invisible talking iPod. If you can't prove that it exists than what reason do you have in believing it? None. And thus you shouldn't believe it.
Didn't Amoeba go over this, Christianity has done more good then bad. You're basing him off written work, you don't know him so best not to judge prematurely But I don't. This little fact makes my experience on Earth a real challenge, Since I don't know my path it feels like I am choosing the cards. Ask him when you die, you expect me to be able to go and talk to him. Only Muslims get on their knee's XD If you do good in life their is no reason to live in fear. Because I want to go to Heaven, you must have faith and be good. I sort of Agree but I would prefer if Scoup stayed. But now you know why I found them disrespectful. Sort of Ironic of how we have less proof of our ancestors and more proof of Dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals. *Nudge* Why will you wait until then when Christianity does not even alter your lifestyle.
I just want to point something out: has is different from is. It's up to debate whether Christianity has done more good than bad, but in this day and age I would say that it is undoubtedly doing more bad. This ranges from the mass manipulation of votes by religious persuasion (Prop. 8 anyone?) to George Bush's claims that the Iraq War was justified because god told him to invade.
I'm not trying to get rid of you. You said this is pointless and we have no reason to debate. I'm just saying if that's what you think, you are allowed to leave. @Insane, I was raised Jewish lol. And I'm not saying I am positive I'm totally correct on everything I am saying, good assumption though, it's one I'd have made and do make to most anyone because that is how I see people. But I was just saying those things based on the things others have told me. I've been told by theists I will burn in a fiery lake pit in Hell, and I am immoral, and there are parts of the bible that do say things about condoning the killing of homosexuals, and parts about how to properly beat your slave and whatnot. The bible I think was written by man, and if a God exists it very well probably doesn't reflect his views at all. But I'm not arguing his real views since there's no way to know what those actually are. However, to follow a religion that bases its ideas off of a book that claims to be the word of God and has sections that show how immorally inferior that God is, is my reason as to why he is not a God I would follow, regardless of his existence, going solely on the idea that the Bible is right in reflecting God's views.
I have. You are the instigator, trying to claim that god exists. It is your responsibility to prove it. We are not on equal ground because we both don't know how our universe first started. Just because you can propose an idea doesn't make it right - this debate is for theists to prove their beliefs against atheists, who make no definitive claims of how the universe began, and if you can't do that then you can't win the debate (nor can your claims even be considered).
So basically, Christians aren't allowed in this thread? To ****ing bad lol. Also, as I stated earlier, if no one has the answers to how the universe first started then you are left with one alternative; an omniscient being or a God had to create it. You are a complete idiot if you think otherwise. And NO I'm not pushing a view on you I'm only speaking logically. THINGS DON'T JUST APPEAR FROM NOTHING. God damn you people are so blind. And you, lol. You just peek your head in here and there only when you think your side is winning. Just leave.