I find it funny that you say if everyone followed the Bible things like that would happen sure in the old "Jewish" laws they were required to do things such as that but once Jesus came he changed the law and changed the way people thought and that is what is so differant about Judism and Christianity they follow everything in the old testiment while we follow the teachings of Jesus and no slavery would not be permitted because Jesus says that every man is equal that is why once again that he was always with the people who where considered worthless at the time.
Because it does it all the time; i.e. birth. Atoms, hitting atoms to form growing atoms that will hate you in 18 years.
I look at it in a completely unbiased way. You don't. Jesus did not CHANGE THE LAW, he simply taught people to stop being assholes and give back. There is nothing in the bible that says Jesus took a place of athority and changed laws. Jesus never truly said slavery was unacceptable.The constitution claims that all men are created equal, the bible never mentions that (what grade are you in?). If he did, then farmers at plantations wouldn't have been able to twist it to their cause. Jesus also hung around the money lenders, the true Jews. Um, you didn't answer my theory on the ark. I win that half of the argument then too? That was too easy. @ pepsi, because Jesus proclaimed he was more than human. He also had a lot of bias people following him around spreading their biased beliefs to others. The information spread falsely, ideas were mixed up and confused. Christians don't want to face the reality. Here is how they think most of the time. 1. We are right all the time and our Bible should be followed by all and made law! 2. Going to church and repenting has saved me and you should do the same. 3. I don't want to listen to blasphemy! Shut up! 4. This makes a little sense but it's still false 5. That makes a lot of sense, what's going on here? 6. NO! God is everything and I don't want to go to hell! 7. Religion is wrong, what will my life be like now? 8. This is much better without the burden of nagging questions and fiction. Normally, people in between religion and atheism go from 3-6 several times before moving on to seven. Then, after a while they see and believe. You gotta try it's fun. No Im not being sarcastic. Edit: Wow was some of the argument deleted? I think I copied/ pasted some of my original post and accidentally placed it into 3 of my posts? Or something...
Damn, I just can't get over the "behavior over conversion" argument. Fundamentally, theists and atheists have two very different outlooks on our mortal life. Theists believe that our mortal life is a "proving ground" where their whole life is a test for the afterlife. The idea that simply believing in Jesus will guarantee access heaven is a double edged sword concept. The up side is that people won't perform good deeds to get into heaven, the negative however is it leads to people getting into heaven who don't deserve it (imo everyone should get in). There is also no incentive in doing good deeds, since you are already guaranteed access into heaven (not saying all Christians sit on their ass). Atheists believe that this life is the only life to live, and you should make the best of it by helping to further your society. Now, Jesus wasn't the only one to die for his beliefs, why should we worship him exclusively? What makes him so special? We could follow his moral teachings (though none of them are unique to him). Why don't we worship someone else who died for their beliefs that had a more profound effect on society? Why does God want us to blindly believe in him? Why does he not let us use our logic to try and find him? (If you only answer one question out of all of this, make it this one)
These quotes wrap up the concept of fear as control, if you believe merely because you're afraid then you're in it for the wrong reasons. In my opinion, eternity in itself, hell or heaven is torture and i'll tell you why i believe this. Not many people get into heaven, which is commonly misconceived. Only a select few get to be in an eternal kingdom with God. It's not a big happy place where everybody you knew goes when they die because a majority of them are going to hell. Just one example of this truth: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." -Matthew 19:24 Anybody you love who ends up in hell is there forever, can you be happy with these people out of your life for eternity? (see Luke 16:19-26) It's also said that there are no tears or sorrow in heaven, among other things: "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." -Revelations 21:4 How are these emotions wiped away if any of the people you love end up in hell? is it impossible to miss people? Are they just erased from your head altogether? I'd rather not be a robot with no negative emotion. If i'm stuck somewhere for eternity, i want to be able to cry. I want the sense of appreciation of things behind me, and ahead. How can this be if everything is perfect? It's all so flawed as an argument for God. It wont open my eyes or anybody else's here whether we take the bible as fact or not, It really doesn't have room in a debate thread but it's all you two are currently going on as of now. K.
i am sorry i forgot about your noahs ark argument but if i say how it happened it will come back and bite me in the ass because of how ridiculous it sounds but if it didnt happen then explain why so many religions that are all around the world had a similar story of a great flood and a man who built a boat or got ontop of a giant turtle (real story) and explain how people have uncovered fossels of sea creatures on top of mountains. He never says all men are equal in the Bible i was getting confused because it was late and i was getting tired but His actions do show it and He died for every man woman and child. The Hebrews where slaves to the Egyptians for a very long time and God let His wrath upon the Egyptians but the Hebrews where Gods chosen people because of Abraham and in no way would it have stayed like that if everyone followed the Bible today because it does not say anywhere in the New Testement that slavery is right.
They never condemn it either. Interesting website. Apparently Jesus treats slavery as a societal norm. Why didn't Jesus speak out against slavery if it is so clearly wrong? It reminds me of the Declaration of Independence actually. "All men are created equal." Except for blacks, women, Jews, gays, the landless, pretty much anyone who isn't a landowning white.
The reason there is fossilized sea life at high elevations is do to plate movement and collisions at one or two plates causing one to crawl onto of the other or two to collide and force up a large amount of rock and earth this is how mountains are formed. Also the earths oceans were much higher in prehistoric times where some desserts we find today used to be ancient sees. Also glacier movement has carved the very earth we live on today whether it be the high mountains or the low valleys. Although there has been multiple great floodings recorded throughout history this isn't why there is fossilized sea creatures in mountainous areas. There would not be enough time between the time of the bible and when you found these fossils for them to have fossilized it takes millions of years to to this.
You mean the Puritans, Catholics, Quakers, Jews, Separatists, etc.? They definitely thought religion was BS! lol you may have missed this but "not being open mined and questioning something would mean death as well" means that if you weren't open minded you would be put to death. If your dumb enough to only believe out of fear then that sounds like a personal problem to me, and not something you should try and turn around to make religion seem like bad thing. That's a selfish reason though. As they say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions. or like atheists saying that all religious people are delusional. BTW short version Hell isn't in the Bible. long version Spoiler More than one hell in the Bible So what is the truth about hell? What does the Bible really teach? Many are surprised to learn that the Bible speaks of three hells—but not in the sense that is widely believed. Let us discover why there is so much confusion about hell. From the original languages in which the Bible was written, one Hebrew word and three Greek words are translated "hell" in our English-language Bibles. The four words convey three different meanings. The Hebrew word sheol, used in the Old Testament, has the same meaning as hades, one of the three Greek words translated "hell" in the New Testament. The Anchor Bible Dictionary explains the meaning of both words: "The Greek word Hades...is sometimes, but misleadingly, translated 'hell' in English versions of the N[ew] T[estament]. It refers to the place of the dead...The old Hebrew concept of the place of the dead, most often called Sheol...is usually translated as Hades, and the Greek term was naturally and commonly used by Jews writing in Greek" (1992, Vol. 3, p. 14, "Hades, Hell"). Both sheol and hades refer simply to the grave. A comparison of an Old Testament and a New Testament scripture confirm this. Psalm 16:10 says, "For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption." In Acts 2:27, the apostle Peter quotes this verse and shows that it is a reference to Jesus Christ. Here the Greek word hades is substituted for the Hebrew sheol. Where did Christ go when He died? His spirit returned to God (Luke 23:46; see "The Spirit in Man" on page 14). His body was placed in a tomb belonging to Joseph of Arimathea. The two passages, in Psalms and Acts, tell us Jesus' flesh did not decay in the grave because God resurrected Him. Many scriptures that use the term hell in the King James Version are simply talking about the grave, the place where everyone, whether good or evil, goes at death. The Hebrew word sheol is used in the Old Testament 65 times. In the King James Version it is translated "grave" 31 times, "hell" 31 times and "pit"—a hole in the ground—three times. The Greek word hades is used 11 times in the New Testament. In the King James translation, in all instances but one the term hades is translated "hell." The one exception is 1 Corinthians 15:55, where it is translated "grave." In the New King James Version, the translators avoided misconceptions by simply using the original Greek word hades in all 11 instances. One word is for demon imprisonment A second Greek word, tartaroo, is also translated "hell" in the New Testament. This word is used only once in the Bible (2 Peter 2:4), where it refers to the current restraint or imprisonment of the fallen angels, otherwise known as demons. The Expository Dictionary of Bible Words explains that tartaroo means "to confine in Tartaros" and that "Tartaros was the Greek name for the mythological abyss where rebellious gods were confined" (Lawrence Richards, 1985, "Heaven and Hell," p. 337). Peter uses this reference to contemporary mythology to show that the sinning angels were "delivered...into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment." These fallen angels are now restrained while awaiting their ultimate judgment for their rebellion against God and destructive influence on humanity. The place where they are imprisoned is not some dark or fiery netherworld. Rather, their confinement is on the earth, where they wield influence over the nations and over individuals. The Gospels record that Jesus Christ and His apostles had very real encounters with Satan and His demons (Matthew 4:1-11; 8:16, 28-33; 9:32-33; John 13:26-27). Jesus even referred to Satan as the ruler of this world (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11). The term tartaroo applies only to demons. Nowhere does it refer to a fiery hell in which human beings are punished after death. Another word for burning—burning up, that is Only with the remaining word translated "hell," the Greek word gehenna, do we see some elements people commonly associate with the traditional view of hell—but not in the manner portrayed in the hell of men's imagination. Gehenna refers to a valley just outside Jerusalem. The word is derived from the Hebrew Gai-Hinnom, the Valley of Hinnom (Joshua 18:16). "Religiously it was a place of idolatrous and human sacrifices . . . In order to put an end to these abominations, [Judah's King] Josiah polluted it with human bones and other corruptions (2 Kgs. 23:10, 13, 14)" (Spiros Zodhiates, The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament, 1992, p. 360). At the time of Jesus this valley was what we might call the city dump—the place where trash was thrown and consumed in the fires that constantly burned there. The carcasses of dead animals—and the bodies of despised criminals—were also cast into Gehenna to be burned. Jesus thus uses this particular location and what took place there to help His listeners clearly understand the fate the unrepentant will suffer in the future. They would have easily grasped what He meant. This actually stunned me, I must say. The view you are asserting is simply astounding. Let's take a look at it: So far you've said that anyone who is religious is biased, I would suppose because of their view of the world as being correct. Yet then you turn around and say you are unbiased, I would suppose because you are looking at the faith from an outside perspective, which would be a perfectly fine thing to say if you were not trying to disprove it at every turn. Yet you are. you are constantly showing you bias against religion through your posts and the hypocrisy in this statement you just made is simply lunacy, perpetuated through your own want to be right about everything. The need to dominate everything is instinctual so I won't hold it against you, much. What!?! You just continue spewing crap in this post. First off why would it matter if Jesus hung around "true Jews"? Secondly, this heaping pile of racism shows just how ignorant you really are. Everyone(pretty much) in Jesus time was Jewish. Being money lenders was just their profession, if anyone it was the people who condemned Jesus(pharisees) that were the "true Jews". They were the people who knew all the rules and followed them to the t. Jesus hung around the money lenders, lepers, and other people who were hated by society to make the point that everyone was loved by God. But, you just come along twisting things to you're own designs, while spewing racists sentiments. You would have a very good argument, if only the theist stance you present was correct. You see you have to have both, it's just without believing you don't get anything. I'll go through the scenarios for you: 1. No belief, no good works--obviously, no. 2. No belief, good works--no. 3. Belief, no good works--no. 4. Belief, good works--yes. You see hell is "'not a punishment imposed externally by God' but is the natural consequence of the unrepentant sinner's choice to live apart from God" as Pope John Paul II puts it. It is just a separation from God, which compared to being with God in Heaven is horrible. I guess you did learn something from Erico, portraying yourself as the good side suffering under the weight of the opposition. 1. because he was God. 2. see 1 3. if you're looking for a profound effect on society look no further than Jesus because he's number 1 on that list. 1. He doesn't. 2. He does. You say biased like its a bad thing. I guess we should just disregard all of evolutionary study since it's just biased people following Darwin's lead. Spreading their biased ideas around. you amuse me since you sound so much like a devote evangelical and don't even realize you are the very thing you despise. just a tiny example--"Then, after a while they see and believe." You're point? You all keep pointing this opinion out but never seem to do anything major with it. You just state it like that proves something or is suppose to shake the foundations of the opposition's argument, but that doesn't happen; you just state an opinion, hurray! yes living with perfection does sound like torture thank you for enlightening me! I don't see how earth shaking movements needed to create mountains or glaciers carving the ground would allow for fossils to be perfectly preserved.
I myself have never stated that anybody with a religion is delusional, in fact I am thinking of becoming buddhist myself, so I would be a hypocrite to say that in the first place. Very interesting, I actually never knew that, I assumed hell was mentioned in the bible because it seems (excuse my pun) many Christians are hell-bent on stating that you will go to hell without accepting Jesus. Even Jakob Hunter said that he wants to save people from "the lake of fire" and that's why he wants them to believe in Jesus. You are obviously much more educated, you have gained a lot of respect in my eyes.
El Diablo, I just wanted to clarify some things: 1. I meant people who ARE open minded and were considered to be heretics would be killed. 2. I'm not 100% sure, but you may have skipped the Noahs Ark theory. 3. Money lenders were the most hated of people during jesus's time. These people, over time, became what we know as Jews ( though technically all people at the time were Jewish before they began Christianity) 4. Like said previously, if hell is so embraced by Christians, then it doesn't matter what the bible say if they believe they preach 100% of the bible. In other words, some Christians do truly believe that hell is real, they have all their facts accruate, etc. 5. Confirmation bias: Believing and accepting bias that go with their established beliefs while ignoring evidence or facts contradicting them. 6. No, you misinterpreted what I said about my previous faith. The thing that affected me most was the constant threat of hell. In other religions, people just say in for other reasons, such as personal bias. Hell though, is the reason people so strongly preach the beliefs of Christianity. I'll have a better argument when Im off my Ipod. Again, I apologize for the error with the copy paste. Also, I can't correct every mistake I made. I especially am sorry if I contradicted myself. I am open minded. You can convert me with scientific, non biased, factual proof of god's existence. Until that day comes, I won't be waiting. I'll enjoy my life.
Can you tell my how you came to this conclusion: "I guess you did learn something from Erico, portraying yourself as the good side suffering under the weight of the opposition." from my statement: "Atheists believe that this life is the only life to live, and you should make the best of it by helping to further your society." This is simply a statement. Atheists have nothing to look forward to after death, so they will try to make the best of it (I even said I don't think Christians do nothing their whole lives).
It proves that a lot of christians are cowardly for believing something out of fear? thanks for quoting my introduction sentence with that reply and answering the true questions of my post [/sarcasm] perfection for ETERNITY. How do you enjoy anything if everything is simply handed to you? The best times in life are the best times because they dont last forever, if they do, a person would most likely go mad. Again, thanks for answering my questions without ignorance. "The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven." -John Milton "The secret source of humour itself is not joy, but sorrow. There is no humour in heaven." -Mark Twain
ER1CO, I have a real question for you. And answer it truthfully. If you were the ONLY person on earth who believed in Christianity, would you still follow it?
That's impossible for him to answer, and we all no the answer is no but people with faith don't have logical reasoning. So they cannot answer that truthfully.
It determines how and where they will be deposited or even if they could be created in a given area. Not any dead animal can become a fossil , you will need time and perfect conditions to do so other wised any dead animal would be fossilized. First you need to have a dead animal and then you need a way of preserving it . This can happen in multiply ways the animal can be buried in clay or some thick sentiment and after extreme pressure and time it becomes like stone. Another way is for it to be captured in a tar pit , volcanic ash, or sap which again hardens and over time becomes hardened or petrified. Now this is how the fossils are created and not turned into fuels[oil] or broken down by decomposition. Now how they reach extreme locations is easy its geological plate movement and or transformation which brings earth stone and other elements to different locations do to its constant movement over time. Fossils can only be created with the right conditions and location and they turn up in strange areas do to platonic movement. A flood could not be responsible for these mountain findings. links to sources the second one is long but some what biased after the 3rd paragraph http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC364.html http://www.skepticfiles.org/atheist/flooddoc.htm The mountains that we see today used to be under shallow seas that covered the majority of the earth and colliding plates created mountains which contained the fossils in them.
Woah! Sweet logic bro. I love how it works around like in a circle & ****. You should totally patent that. I have a question: Seeing as the "Virgin Mary" was 13-14 when god impregnated her, and she didn't give consent, that mean god raped her, no? I guess god doesn't have a problem with teen pregnancy after all.