You don't even have to clone a person. This can be seen in identical twins that are separated at birth (put up for adoption or something). Depending upon the environment they are raised in, they can turn out to be very different people even though they look the same/similar. Current cloning processes aren't effective because they result in offspring with reduced lifespans and susceptibility to various genetic diseases. Until that is fixed, there won't be any legal human cloning going on.
Conversion Over Behavior The charity worker/murderer comparison is frightening. You want to believe so badly that you are willing to accept a version of reality where absolutely horrible people are rewarded in heaven just because they are converted to believe the same as you, while some of the best human beings on earth, who have dedicated their entire lives to selfless acts of charity will suffer endlessly burning eternally because they had a different way of thinking about life than you do. Ask yourself why your religion was set up like that. Why is the value of converting put so high above the actual moral direction of a persons life? The answer seems pretty obvious to me.
It seems to me that you have no interest in at least listening to that mans argument. It doesn't matter if you are the most charitable person on this planet, dedicated to helping starving children in Africa or whatever other crap you want to say. Look. In the beginning Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world. They were also sinless. God told them they could have whatever they wanted EXCEPT the fruit from the tree in the center of the garden. They ate the fruit anyways and their eyes were opened to sin. God cursed the two and gave men the curse of labor and work, while he gave woman the curse of child bearing. Sin is passed down through the man's seed. So every human on earth born of man is sinful, regardless. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, therefore he was born sinless. Dude read the bible instead of atheist sites. I'm not saying you have to stop I'm just saying read the bible too. You seriously bash any christian theology or christian believe when we're just trying to show you our standpoint.
This argument has been brought up before. I could try to flesh this point out more, but I will simply ask: If Adam and Eve had no prior knowledge of sin, how could they know what they were doing was wrong?
Life is countless chemical reactions that happened and over time evolved into what we call life today. The primortial soup would be the best explanation of how life was created a mixture of water ,oxygen ,carbon, and so many other gasses and elements which after so long created the simplest form of life. After these small forms of life were eventual gathered together in large amounts it multiplied like cells self replicating if you will. This continues and more complicated bacteria come about from the constant multiplying and evolving and organisms are then created. Over trillions of years this probably took place and we are the best result we know of, Earth is perfect for life to be created and it was. You need the elements,the perfect location, and lots of time to create life. We are already cloning and creating AI life as well as being able to grow tissue and make more complicated orgamisms through genetics. To say a god created us and all life would be ignorant because we are almost able to do it at will ,so are we now all gods? lol Also to say we are all teaming up on the religious side of the argument is silly. There was a fairly even difference between the debating sides and over some time we made arguments that had some debaters leave because they either couldn't answer it or make a decent counter argument. We happen to be outnumbering the theist side now because in a way we are able to bring more arguments up to prove most religious storys to be false and some religions to be cheap ripoffs of older ones.So people may have realized that "hey this just might not add up now that I think of it" and gone to rethink their choices and to decide whether stey still believe in "God". Some still do believe and some feel as if their faith is being hurt and they leave or may even convert depending on how religious they were to begin with. Most of us non religious people see religion as corrupt and as possible a con instead of its orriginal purpose which was to educate and to give morals to people. Religion gave the first people an education and scape goats called god and satan. These two being would become the explanation to any occurences good or bad that early humans couldn't explain. These two beings also kept people in check making sure people would behave by giving them rewards and punish ment [heaven , hell] . I see it has grown out of porportion in mordern day and is now hurting people instead of helping. I think science has grown enough that it could replace religion . Scorpulus could you try and not swear and just be polite and debate like a normal person instead of insulting peoples arguments who actualy have done research on the topic. Your little opinion paragraph arguments are not going to make people think your right when yor yelling swears and calling them names. We like facts that are backed up with proof and good arguments supporting them if you can not supply proof of what you are trying to make a point of then don't post. Just your opinion and what your bible says is not enough. Pick up a history book and read it ,you might learn somthing about your religion and or other religions like yours.
We would be gods to what we created, that still does not make us better then the "God" that created us. Also how can you say life just formed from Atoms, if Atoms don't have a brain or any control how can they all get together and form bacteria which then somehow became other more advanced species.
Atoms form molecules because of their desire to fill their electron shells. Molecules form organelles, they form cells, and cells make up an organism. I can't go into greater detail about the attraction between atoms if you haven't taken a high level chemistry class yet.
Thank you for posting this I forgot the specific order of how life is created I just added this to my last post to fill in the gap if you don't mind. I forgot all those names lol I need to look at my biology book more ;]. Scorpulus read my above post if you decided to just skip it.
Substance I certainly listened to the man's argument. I then took the time to process what he said and then individually addressed some of the points he made in his statement about his Christian viewpoint. That's what you do in a debate. You should try it. Your recent posts have been about how offended you are that people including myself are just bashing your religion. There is no bashing happening here. If you feel uneasy or threatened when the light of logic is shown brightly on your most cherished traditions, I'm sorry. I came here to debate, and that's what I'll keep doing. Why don't you try addressing some of the points I brought up. Refute the substance of the argument instead of just being offended and accusing others of not listening. Why is conversion into Christianity valued more than good moral behavior throughout your life?
I'm not getting offended. I'm getting irritated because the Bible clearly states that those who do not accept Jesus will burn forever in a hell. I believe this. If it turns out to be true and you turn out being wrong, you'll have to burn and I don't want anybody in this forum to undergo such torture. All I'm trying to do is stress to you my beliefs. Believe it or not but I care about you, mak. I love your maps. Probably one of the better forgers on this site- but with all that aside you are still a human being and according to the Bible, with the way you life, you will be apart of that. That's basically what I've been trying to say this entire time lol. This week has been hectic. Hard to conjure up a thought without saying numbers.. ****ing math.. >.>
I apologize for the anger, but, why the **** is your Jesus far more important than Muhammad? Or someone's buddha? You have already put your religion on a pedestal. And while you try to sugarcoat it by saying that you don't want anyone to burn in hell you are basically saying that any person who isn't christian is a sinner. This is the exact reason that I will never join the Christian religion ever, because you people so "humanely" force people to like your religion. This thread is about the existence of God not the moralities of Jesus, if you wish to try to convert some people to Christianity start looking elsewhere, because this is a God debate not a conversion debate.
Just going off that kid that started talking about Jesus. EDIT: Also, randal, Jesus and God are related though lol. Jesus is actually a way to prove God exists. But now, in this day-in-age, people just don't give a **** about anything but visual NOW GOTTA HAVE IT NOW, CAN'T SEE IT? HELL I DON'T BELIEVE IT nonsense. Stuff like that. Anything I say just gets beat into a corner so I'll leave this thread where it's at.
You know why so many people moved to the colonies of America in the 18th century? Religious freedom. Even people back then knew it was BS, so they wanted to GTFO.
It is valued because people want to go to Heaven and not be in torture the rest of their lives but that does not mean you cant do good deeds it talks about it alot in the Bible to glorify God and to do good things for people as long as you are glorifing God by doing so people just choose not to listen. The more things that you do for God on earth the more jewels will be on your crown in Heaven and also by preaching the Word of God and converting people you are basicly helping save them from eternity in pain and suffering in the lake of fire.
All right, but the Bible is a book of fiction. Anybody knows that after reading Noahs Ark. Please explain, if evolution isn't true, how was Noah able to fit in over 4 million species of bacteria, disease, animals, plants, etc? Go on, the answer HAS to be in that book of yours right? Or was it very vague and did it only just talk about two of each animal being on the ship? Another argument that I would like to bring up is how fictional the bible is and how biased humans are. You really truly believe that your god and Bible are 100% valid. However, you can't even look at yourself and realize that society doesn't follow the bible. Dow mentioned the facts: If we were to follow the Bible, slavery would be enforced, woman would have no rights, children would be beat and killed, working on Sunday would equal death, and not being open mined and questioning something would mean death as well. I have no doubt that HELL was the reason why I stayed in my old religion for 13 years. I was a kid and was scared of burning for eternity. But then I realized how funny that sounds, and my eyes widened and I began questioning my faith. I became a better person because good things weren't done for god or to go to heaven, but because it made me feel good inside to help others.
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say the sugarcoat the you believe what I believe or you go to hell. It's that self-righteousness that many Christians hold, and don't even realize it. What if by being Buddhist I find my way into Nirvana by meditating, and learning the teachings of previous buddhists. I don't need to have your God's word ingrained into my head to be "saved" In a sense that makes Christians a racist society, seeing as they automatically think their one religion is the best one, and they must convert all others to it. It's like saying that white people are all the best, so we gotta make sure every black guy changes to white, or else he'll be tortured for his life. In the most peaceful of religions they believe that their religion is best, but they prefer to keep to themselves because if someone wanted to be "saved" they would find a way to be saved rather than being forced into doing it.
Well I don't need to suck someone's **** to make myself feel safer about my future. The government promises us new policies, such as Homeland Security, but we know it's not really for the safety of the public. It's to help the government make their activities legal. The Patriot Act? Yeah, I feel so much safer because of that. Before I start accepting something, I'd rather be asking "why" first. But to ask that question, you need to let go of all self-righteous bull that your church decides to expel week after week. Fear is what bounds most people to their religion. After that, notions of "love" begin to settle in. That fear is going to chain you to your grave. Do you know why you worship your "God"? Is it really because you love Jesus? Or is it because you're afraid?
If you read my ealier posts you would know that i am not like that i respect other religions and find the worst way to help convert someone is to scare or shove things down their throat i was just answering the other guys question on what we believe i am sorry it came across like that that is the last thing i want. But saying that all Christians do that is a stereotype just because a you have had it happen to you by some Christians does not mean we are all like that so dont look down on an entire religion because of sterotypes.
It's not a stereotype, stereotyping is when you believe something from how most people of that group do something. You all believe in that theory of believe or go to hell. It's written in your scripture, not believing in it would be hypocrisy.