You are also being rather arrogant. However, I don't think you realize it. Everything you say, getting past the fact that everything you say is an argument against religion, is saying that anyone against you is being biased and close minded and too arrogant to be argued with. That's arrogance. You are also being close minded when you refuse to look at the atheistic point of view. And most atheists aren't close minded because most atheists weren't always atheist, and were Christian or Catholic or Jewish or Muslim or some religion at some point. So most atheists have looked at life from your point of view. You just haven't looked at life from ours. Saying crap so he doesn't look bad? Really? It makes perfect sense. Atheists understand that this life is the only one we have, and we aren't going to under appreciate it by thinking of it as unimportant because we have a supposed better one after this one. While it is a very nice comfort, to believe in an afterlife, the truth, and comfort, aren't exactly the same always. Enjoying this life as much as you can, can let you be happy when you die because you know you did all you could in your finite life, and those finite acts aren't going to be unfairly rewarded by infinite consequences, whether it be heaven or hell, both are giving eternal rewards for temporary things. If give a child a grenade and see if he pulls the pin, KNOWING he will pull the pin (because the unfair thing in life is that God ALREADY knows exactly how each person's life will play out, giving you no chance to change that. If you could change it, God would know, and if he didn't, he wouldn't be omniscient) you can't punish the child for that act with eternal torture. That's horrible. Or if your son kills a man, will you set up a torture chamber in your basement where you will keep him in forever? Or on the other side... does a good deed that is finite deserve heaven? Does loving God, or being a good person in your short life deserve such eternal bliss? Especially knowing God already knew from before birth that you'd get there? And yet while you are there, God is sending people to hell, having known before they were born they'd end up there but creating them anyway? Is this a fair system of punishment? Being an Atheist, when I get to the end of my life, I can be happy knowing I lived my only life ever as well as I could. An afterlife takes away from this life because it makes this one like a little road bump on the way to true happiness. Things like childbirth and love and friendship and excitement, even bad things that you feel so much emotion for, like death and pain, lose their meaning when you have a whole new eternal life waiting, and when feeling those emotions never will end, whereas a great part of emotion on earth is that they DO end. Making them more special while they last. (sorry for the rant lol Just sort of kept typing without realizing I was) Then why are you here? If you can't debate with a biased person, then you shouldn't be debating at all. Everyone in a debate is biased. If not, then what are you doing? Arguing both sides? Since you aren't, don't try saying "I can't debate with biased people because there's absolutely no point". The point of a debate is to argue without end, and learn and listen to the other side. If you can't agree to disagree, and expect everyone here to convert or something, then don't come here. You are assuming things too. You are assuming that God exists, the bible is true, and that "experiences" that seem miraculous/spiritual/unlikely or unexplainable must logically be proof of God. And going back to being biased, your experiences have no reason to be in this debate, because they are extremely biased to yourself, and not to anyone else. Whereas something like the theory of evolution wasn't an experience someone had and was like, "Good golly its gotta be evolution!", it's been tested and examined and is a piece of evidence to be used, unlike saying, "We prayed for them and then they got better, it had to be God" (just making that up as an example of using an experience) I respect the fact that you've had experiences that convince you of a God, don't let that go, but in a debate, they have no place because they aren't pieces of evidence, nor are they proven or researched or anything. The mind sees what the mind wants to see.
...And now in a separate post... Did you seriously try to use yourself as a reference? Maybe you think RabidZergling "thinks he's smarter than everyone else" because subconsciously you know he's right? Only you can answer that one.
So your saying that we will just change our logic just because were afraid that well never have an afterlife? To reassure ourselves? that is pretty stupid. I think xavier put it perfectly. as an Atheist, i believe there is no such thing as god or "Afterlife" I believe in the scientific term of death. "when you die, you have no way of thinking, talking, moving, or the ability to know that you cant talk or think or move. There is no "afterlife"." that is my theory
(1) You give me proof of an afterlife and I'll believe there's an afterlife. (2) Yes. We have a short time on earth and, biologically, we want to use that time to be as happy as possible. There's no point in denying ourselves that by focusing on the inevitable. (3) Give me some of this logical reasoning you are talking about. You talk about all this logical proof, but any time you give proof it is easily refuted... (4) Tell me this personal experience that makes you believe in god, then. (5) Tell me one important thing I have assumed, and I will explain why it is logical (and thus not assumed).
I was comparing being happy vs. being unhappy.. not being an atheist vs. theist. I've already supplied you with A) "logical reasoning" B) "that personal experience" C) "What you have assumed" I'm not going to keep repeating myself. Go search for it yourself, that's what I've been doing.
I can't find any logical evidence. Maybe we have different definitions of evidence. Repeat yourself again, and we will see if our definitions differ.
Stop assuming. First of all, I never said you should change your logic. Second of all, if anything, I've said you should look for God, instead of denying him. Why do we dream? Our mind keeps going when we sleep. Why do we have an afterlife? Our soul keeps going when we die. Simply put.
can you supply it to us again? i am actualy interested right now in your personal experience. tell me.
Okay, you spent 4 minutes looking in between my post and this post. Try searching a little harder. I've already quoted them at least once. Edit: same goes for you, ROFLninja.
How much thought did you put into that? There's a key difference. We have a mind. We can prove it through autopsies and dissection. We don't have a soul. Before you yell ASSUMING! again, I'll explain why. -A soul has no physical proof. -Thus, we have to turn to the word of current religious leaders. -Current religious leaders base their beliefs off the Bible. -There is no proof that the bible is the word of God. -There is no proof of a God. (Until you show us some!) -Thus, there is no proof of a soul. It's like you telling me to find a table when our definitions of a table are completely different. I want you to post what you believe is evidence so we can discuss why you consider it evidence and why I don't. Or, you can just keep saying no, even though I am confident it wouldn't take you more than 1 minute to type up what you believe is proof.
And why would i be motivated to do so? How can we trust and believe in someone who has hidden in a closet for longer than humanity ("if said logic is true") has existed?
It's up to you to look. I'm confused. Are you implying that God is gay...? lol He isn't exactly hidden. Try searching the door cracks... Maybe the closet's light is still on.
Wait you never responded at all to my post. Could you please? I'd hate to have typed that up for nothing lol
WHAT THE ****, SHOW ME HOW IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE THAT HE CAN EXIST BEFORE YOU THROW A BOMB OF A METAPHOR LIKE THAT IN THERE. And of course i dont think god is gay, i dont believe in god. Yeah, I was wondering what your personal experience was. Edit: You all hesitated when i posted this, a challenge, eh Erico? =)
Scientific proof of a soul: Spoiler Source Source Read all of it. Edit: I'm laughing so hard right now... No, I was replying to someone else. Okay, so God's existence... That's what we've been debating this entire thread. I guess my conclusion is that God's "evidence" comes through personal experience and the Bible. Many people seem to disagree with the Bible being evidence, so I guess I'll just go with with the personal experience part.
But what personal experience did you have that proved him to you? And you still didn't respond to my post :/ EDIT: Also, responding to ROFLninjas post by saying you are laughing is not a response.
that sounds reasonable, KINDA i guess that if thats the truth, well never come to an agreement. the thing is, the alternative to souls is that we are just big pieces of walking meat and bacteria, having evolved from thousands of years, and when we die, NOTHING ****ING HAPPENS. i believe in the alternative. yet, its not depressing to me.
(1) The first one you wrote is simply making a false assumptions based on too-simple definitions. Just because our body changes atoms doesn't mean we need a soul to keep ourselves together. The materials that form us change over time, but they are immediately replaced by identical materials in the identical spot. It's like shedding your skin, except with your entire body. In response to the second one, here is an article explaining how we percieve humor. That same site has many more articles about the detailed functions of our brain. Also, how is the second one proof of a soul? Assuming that your article was correct in saying we didn't know how people are intelligent (it is not), that just means we haven't discovered something yet- not that there is a soul. For proof of a soul, you need proof of a soul, not proof that a soul could potentially exist since there is a gap it could fill. (2) Then tell us your personal experience.
Oh, I didn't see your post... I might reply later.. and I did respond to ROFLninjas post... so um... yea... And for you looking for more proof.. You want it? Here it is.
if your looking for something to take your mind off of god and simplify your ultimate equation, go read "Pooh and the Philosophers." Its amazing, but does not suggest one bit of anything about spiritual being and how it could potentialy exist. @ rabid, we are kinda getting tired of your post response format. as goes to Erico